Fractal Talk

[yek]

I’m not talking about overwriting anything nor advocating for less accuracy in modeling and I’m not sure why that notion persists. Perhaps it’s getting conflated with the JVM discussion. Your Peavey example is a great one! I say fix the pot to be accurate and offer a Cliff idealized/custom version with the alternative value. Problem solved and everyone should be happy choosing which ever they prefer.

You are underestimating the work involved for FAS. Each idealized virtual component / controls means work to create, and work to maintain. And it doesn’t translate to more revenue.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Well I think the mystery has been solved.

Cliffs amp has some resistors that limit the range of the treble pot, that shouldn’t be there. So this explains why I was having to crank the treble to get it to where would normally be about 6/10.

The Satriani HJS had some tweaks that involved adding these resistors, and also more filtering after the tone stack. Perhaps Cliffs amp is a prototype or has been modded at some point.

Hopefully it’s something Cliff is open to correcting, and that it’s simple enough tweak to restore the JVM410 tonestack to have the full range. Anyone who likes the existing model would just need to adjust the treble settings a bit, correcting it will allow the full range of tones as it was designed and intended.

Shouts to @FractalAudio for taking the time to look at the amp and model again, and also @santiall for answering my questions. Mindblowing that we can communicate with these legends so easily.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Well I think the mystery has been solved.

Cliffs amp has some resistors that limit the range of the treble pot, that shouldn’t be there. So this explains why I was having to crank the treble to get it to where would normally be about 6/10.

The Satriani HJS had some tweaks that involved adding these resistors, and also more filtering after the tone stack. Perhaps Cliffs amp is a prototype or has been modded at some point.

Hopefully it’s something Cliff is open to correcting, and that it’s simple enough tweak to restore the JVM410 tonestack to have the full range. Anyone who likes the existing model would just need to adjust the treble settings a bit, correcting it will allow the full range of tones as it was designed and intended.

Shouts to @FractalAudio for taking the time to look at the amp and model again, and also @santiall for answering my questions. Mindblowing that we can communicate with these legends so easily.

Perhaps it's modded for Joe's DS-1 that's on all the time?

 

[Mongillo19]

Well I think the mystery has been solved.

Cliffs amp has some resistors that limit the range of the treble pot, that shouldn’t be there. So this explains why I was having to crank the treble to get it to where would normally be about 6/10.

The Satriani HJS had some tweaks that involved adding these resistors, and also more filtering after the tone stack. Perhaps Cliffs amp is a prototype or has been modded at some point.

Hopefully it’s something Cliff is open to correcting, and that it’s simple enough tweak to restore the JVM410 tonestack to have the full range. Anyone who likes the existing model would just need to adjust the treble settings a bit, correcting it will allow the full range of tones as it was designed and intended.

Shouts to @FractalAudio for taking the time to look at the amp and model again, and also @santiall for answering my questions. Mindblowing that we can communicate with these legends so easily.

Also kudos to you! This kind of work is just as vital. You took the time and used real data to describe what seemed amiss.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Also kudos to you! This kind of work is just as vital. You took the time and used real data to describe what seemed amiss.

You're not going to get that with the "HAVE YOU TRIED THE X-CRUNCH AMP?!?!?!?" crew.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

The Fractal reference amp is stock, so it raises some questions why the tone circuit is different. But I’m determined to get it figured out as I’ve recorded quite a few JVM’s over the years and I have never felt the need to run the treble or presence high, nor do any examples I can find online.

Do you want a car that goes from 0-60mph, or one that goes to 0-120mph?

 

[Mongillo19]

You're not going to get that with the "HAVE YOU TRIED THE X-CRUNCH AMP?!?!?!?" crew.

Ya know I've never tried Boss modeling (that is boss right? )

 

[yek]

Well I think the mystery has been solved.

Cliffs amp has some resistors that limit the range of the treble pot, that shouldn’t be there. So this explains why I was having to crank the treble to get it to where would normally be about 6/10.

The Satriani HJS had some tweaks that involved adding these resistors, and also more filtering after the tone stack. Perhaps Cliffs amp is a prototype or has been modded at some point.

Hopefully it’s something Cliff is open to correcting, and that it’s simple enough tweak to restore the JVM410 tonestack to have the full range. Anyone who likes the existing model would just need to adjust the treble settings a bit, correcting it will allow the full range of tones as it was designed and intended.

Shouts to @FractalAudio for taking the time to look at the amp and model again, and also @santiall for answering my questions. Mindblowing that we can communicate with these legends so easily.

Well done

 

[Mongillo19]

Although unfortunately I don't see much being changed unless an amp is sent in.

Are you sending yours in @MirrorProfiles

 

[KingsXJJ]

You are underestimating the work involved for FAS. Each idealized virtual component / controls means work to create, and work to maintain. And it doesn’t translate to more revenue.

Maybe but I doubt it. These aren’t new, from the ground up” builds at all. Cliff would only need to create the alternatives that he identifies as candidates. I would imagine swapping out a few variables would not be that time consuming. And really, that’s up for him to decide if it’s worthwhile and time constraints allow it. I’m just putting the idea out there.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Although unfortunately I don't see much being changed unless an amp is sent in.

Are you sending yours in @MirrorProfiles

I don’t have one atm, but I’m not averse to grabbing one again. I’ve recorded quite a few over the years and I’ve never had to set the presence or treble much above 6.

Shipping a Marshall to the US and back is probably going to cost more than buying a head, they go for £400-500 used here. I’ll figure something out, I’m absolutely certain that the sound of a JVM that everyone is familiar with does not have those resistors. It’s known to be a brighter amp, and the Satriani model is a dark amp.

We’ll get there

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Might need to assemble the TGF JVM squad for some reamps

 

[Mongillo19]

I don’t have one atm, but I’m not averse to grabbing one again. I’ve recorded quite a few over the years and I’ve never had to set the presence or treble much above 6.

Shipping a Marshall to the US and back is probably going to cost more than buying a head, they go for £400-500 used here. I’ll figure something out, I’m absolutely certain that the sound of a JVM that everyone is familiar with does not have those resistors. It’s known to be a brighter amp, and the Satriani model is a dark amp.

We’ll get there

Ah I didn't realize you were outside the US. Yeah forget that lol

At least Cliff is aware. It may just take some time for him to come around to it.

 

[James Freeman]

Well I think the mystery has been solved.

Cliffs amp has some resistors that limit the range of the treble pot, that shouldn’t be there. So this explains why I was having to crank the treble to get it to where would normally be about 6/10.

The Satriani HJS had some tweaks that involved adding these resistors, and also more filtering after the tone stack. Perhaps Cliffs amp is a prototype or has been modded at some point.

Hopefully it’s something Cliff is open to correcting, and that it’s simple enough tweak to restore the JVM410 tonestack to have the full range. Anyone who likes the existing model would just need to adjust the treble settings a bit, correcting it will allow the full range of tones as it was designed and intended.

Shouts to @FractalAudio for taking the time to look at the amp and model again, and also @santiall for answering my questions. Mindblowing that we can communicate with these legends so easily.

I think the additional treble pot resistors are not unique to cliff's hjs amp, they are there on retail.
JS tonestack section schematic:

 

[JiveTurkey]

I think the additional treble pot resistors are not unique to cliff's hjs amp, they are there on retail.
JS tonestack section schematic:

View attachment 43690

Toan Is In The Turds?™

 

[James Freeman]

Wait, the JVM410 model has the same tonestack as the HJS model?
Because they are different, there is even a difference between OD1 and OD2 tonestacks in the JVM410.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I think the additional treble pot resistors are not unique to cliff's hjs amp, they are there on retail.
JS tonestack section schematic:

View attachment 43690

Yeah, they are in the JVM 410HJS (and schematic). But not the 410H schematic, and AFAIK not in any JVM I’ve ever heard or used, besides Cliffs

 

[JiveTurkey]

Isn't Orvillain's the same amp as Cliff's though?

 

[FractalAudio]

Wait, the JVM410 model has the same tonestack as the HJS model?
Because they are different, there is even a difference between OD1 and OD2 tonestacks in the JVM410.
View attachment 43691

No, the models don't have the same tone stacks.

However, our reference JVM410H has 47K resistors in series with the treble pots.

A JVM410HJS also has 47K resistors in series with the treble pots.

The question is whether our reference amp is incorrect or did Marshall start putting those resistors in there at some point. I suspect the latter.

One of the common complaints with the JVM410H is squealing when you turn the treble up. This is because the chassis is laid out incorrectly. The output transformer is on the wrong side and couples into the input stage.

I suspect Marshall changed the tone stack to reduce the crosstalk and address the squealing complaints.

 

[GTR37]

You're not going to get that with the "HAVE YOU TRIED THE X-CRUNCH AMP?!?!?!?" crew.

I am more interested in whose X Recto they modelled