Line 6 Helix Stadium Talk

[Sascha Franck]

but the hardware's been improved in many other ways.

I don't doubt that at all - as said, I was just curious whether something has changed in the FX algorithms as people were claiming they'd hear a difference.

 

[Elf]

Chance potential, theoretical, future Helix Stadium Native

 

[dws2384]

My Trifecta would be Stadium for direct and all in one, Stadium stomp for end of my ‘real’ pedalboard and Stadium Native for recording. The ability for all the effects, Agoura amps and Proxy captures on one platform and across different hardware is very appealing.

 

[Lysander]

Can anyone with a Stadium compare the effects between old helix and also Helix Native?

If the improvements are solely down to a better audio path, then Helix Native should fare well. If there is under the hood changes, then those audible improvements should be apparent.

I need to shoot it next to my Stomp someday, but unless my mind's playing tricks on me, i'd swear the HXS sounds better thant the original Helix did on FX and amps. Not a night and day difference, but i think it's there.

 

[dean701]

IOW, people claiming that the reverbs would now sound "better" as well are either victims of perception bias or never listened to them through proper DA converters.

I would believe that the effects would sound better if the amp in front feeding them sounds better. Therefore it would be a tough shoot out since Native and Helix OG wouldn't be Agoura amps.

 

[Chocol8]

I would believe that the effects would sound better if the amp in front feeding them sounds better. Therefore it would be a tough shoot out since Native and Helix OG wouldn't be Agoura amps.

????

wouldn't you use a non-agora amp for any test, and better yet bypass all blocks except for the one effect you are testing?

 

[dean701]

????

wouldn't you use a non-agora amp for any test, and better yet bypass all blocks except for the one effect you are testing?

yep, no amp at all and just a clean DI. although there is still the Stadium hardware that could have better/cleaner ADA converters if going against the OG hardware

 

[Sascha Franck]

yep, no amp at all and just a clean DI. although there is still the Stadium hardware that could have better/cleaner ADA converters if going against the OG hardware

Which is why I suggested using the same input stages (most obvious option: Stadium hardware) for both the Stadium hardware and HXN and only run FX that exist on either platform.
But then, DI already pretty much said that there'd be no differences in the FX algorithms per se.
What I thought at first would be that there could be, say, better oversampling algorithms in general, something everyting would profit from. But that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[dws2384]

The effects might sound ‘better’ due to the upgraded signal path but I can’t see it being anything anyone could ever pick out in a blind test. It would be like the Strymon V1 vs V2 pedals that kept the same algorithms but have the JFET input vs the previous. I.e the Flint. Put a V1 and V2 flint side by side and get anyone to reliably pick them out. I’d wager the circuit differences there would be larger than the helix versions.

Probably the quality/type/length of cable the person is using between their guitar and the device has a larger effect on the sound

That’s not me trying to downplay the upgraded path. Improvements are improvements and always welcome. I just feel like some people are expecting the same effects to sound completely different on the Stadium and that’s not the case. If you like them you like them, if you don’t you don’t

 

[dean701]

Which is why I suggested using the same input stages (most obvious option: Stadium hardware) for both the Stadium hardware and HXN and only run FX that exist on either platform.
But then, DI already pretty much said that there'd be no differences in the FX algorithms per se.
What I thought at first would be that there could be, say, better oversampling algorithms in general, something everyting would profit from. But that doesn't seem to be the case.

I still debate that. a first hand comparison from the helix effect through the OG vs the same helix effect through the new unit still includes the new platform variables so it may be 'polishing' something.
Regardless, the current effects are workable on the Stadium although I'm always willing to get better effects.
Right now I have my Stadium going spdif out to my fm9 and that handles my post effects. (just cuz I have it). I could use the dynamic hall if I needed to.

 

[dws2384]

I still debate that. a first hand comparison from the helix effect through the OG vs the same helix effect through the new unit still includes the new platform variables so it may be 'polishing' something.
Regardless, the current effects are workable on the Stadium although I'm always willing to get better effects.
Right now I have my Stadium going spdif out to my fm9 and that handles my post effects. (just cuz I have it). I could use the dynamic hall if I needed to.

It’s all subjective. Stadium is my first line 6 product and I find myself going to a lot of the legacy effects just cause they’re a bit more gritty and less polished.

As an avid Rig Rundown watcher…How many of the top guys in Nashville and LA are playing on hit records (the few that are still using a guitar) are using M9’s? Way more than those using Helix or Fractal. I suppose HX stomps are pretty popular among that crowd, effects only though. How many guys with large followings are still using original DL4s?

 

[dean701]

Very subjective. I've had line 6 stuff forever and I've always been happy with them from a playing perspective. Pod2 into a drri, ax2 effects amp, m9...
Its only when I started recording more stuff that modeling/profilers entered into the equation. So many options, so little time to try everything.

 

[EOengineer]

Part of the perceived improvement of some of the effects is definitely the cumulative effect of running them into the new amps plus the new converters. Agoura has way more dynamic range in the amps, which changes how some effects sound and feel through the amp.

When I do use reverbs, I run them into the front of distorted amps to create weird pads and synth sounds. OG helix kind of flattened the dynamics, where Agoura responds MUCH closer to my tube amps.

Same with modulations and drives where they feel punchier through the new amps.

Doesn’t change the math for folks just using fx with no amp models, obviously.

 

[Orvillain]

I would believe that the effects would sound better if the amp in front feeding them sounds better. Therefore it would be a tough shoot out since Native and Helix OG wouldn't be Agoura amps.

Amp in front???

 

[dean701]

Amp in front???

Ouch..Kevin Spacey

 

[paisleywookiee]

Amp in front???

Yeah. Like normal people.

 

[Orvillain]

Yeah. Like normal people.

You weirdo.

 

[ian_dissonance]

Do you do like drive-reverb-amp? I’ve always used reverb for ambience after an amp, not sure why I never tried it INTO distortion.

 

[EOengineer]

Do you do like drive-reverb-amp? I’ve always used reverb for ambience after an amp, not sure why I never tried it INTO distortion.

Conventional wisdom is that it’s wrong, but some of the shimmery types sound very cool as they distort. I’m a big fan of the legacy particle verb for pad sounds that can get almost synth like.

The whole thing teeters on the edge of chaos too. Too much dirt or too much verb and it can get uncontrollable. I’ve played in some shoegazy scenarios where it’s gotten away from me live.

It sounds cool when it works though. Back the dirt down to start if you’re just getting your feet wet.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Steven Wilson, well known British prog rock genius and general weirdo (not unlike @Orvillain) also runs everything, including reverb, into the front of his amps (Bad Cat, usually).
Can’t argue with genius, but I still think it sounds like ass, when pretty much everyone else does it.