Fractal ICONS Plugin

Is this based on any data? At first glance and with no experience on this space this is what I would assume - but it’s this reality?

If something of infinite supply is made available for free, then yes people outside the targeted price demographic will try it when they otherwise could not afford it, yes. That is basic economic theory.

Affordability aside, there is also the experience side of things. "I can afford that but will not buy it because I don't want to deal with the market platform through which it is sold. Just pirating it will be easier." is absolutely a sentiment shared by many pirates.

If you're looking for some poll to cite, then I have no idea of any such poll, mostly because I doubt most pirates would be happy to come out and volunteer to a polling organization that they commit crime on the reg.


This is no different than the “free exposure” argument. It’s BS.

Just because it's not fair doesn't mean it's not true.
 
When someone says they think they're going to be dog-piled, what they mean is that they believe irrational but loud people are going to irrationally lash out at them.

I'd love to hear your reasoning for why I would be "rightfully" dog-piled for condemning piracy while also attempting to explain some of it as opposed to just knee-jerk barking at it like a dog because that's the popular thing to do.

The suggestion that FAS should purposely distribute broken software is, well, eh, not thought through well.
 
Please tell me how you can "assure me" that piracy hurts sales when evidence of "lost sales" because of piracy are by definition impossible to determine... because you're not only trying to count sales that didn't happen, you're attempting to count sales that didn't happen and arbitrarily attributing the reason for the lack of a sale to a specific cause you also cannot validate.

I'd be happy to. I have experienced, multiple times, a sudden drop in sales on the very day that a crack appears. The correlation is clear and the cause is undeniable.

Rationalizations like the ones you've cited have been repeated endlessly throughout the years, but have no factual basis.
 
Your "first hand knowledge" as a plugin developer just tells me you have a personal stake in the argument and are therefore emotionally biased towards it and less capable of thinking about it rationally.

Please tell me how you can "assure me" that piracy hurts sales when evidence of "lost sales" because of piracy are by definition impossible to determine... because you're not only trying to count sales that didn't happen, you're attempting to count sales that didn't happen and arbitrarily attributing the reason for the lack of a sale to a specific cause you also cannot validate.




You have evidence of that? Because I have personally been to friends' studios where they use cracked software, decided I liked the way the software worked, and went out and purchased it myself. Looks like that "nobody" claim of yours isn't true. It happened with me. You can say that's just anecdotal if you want but if it happened with me, that means it can happen with anybody and likely has. Often.




Maybe not, I'm happy to say that was just a single idea off the dome. But whether that idea works or not doesn't detract from the overall message of the post which is that just because piracy happens doesn't mean the sky is falling, and that it should be attempted to be better understood.
If your “friends “ are running pro studios and are scanning the internet for pirated software to use instead of being paying customer they are part of the problem
 
If your “friends “ are running pro studios and are scanning the internet for pirated software to use instead of being paying customer they are part of the problem

I didn't say they were "pro" studios, and yes I totally agree that they are part of the problem.

Again, I am not defending or excusing piracy. I'm trying to talk about it in a rational way without falling all over myself virtue signaling to everybody on the forum about how I'm just so mad at these darn pirates so I can be a more accepted member of the group, without any real attempt to understand why it is happening or what can be done about it.
 
The suggestion that FAS should purposely distribute broken software is, well, eh, not thought through well.

Maybe it's a terrible idea. I'll accept criticism for that if deserved, sure.

But just being told "you deserve to be told off by everybody for wanting to actually engage in a discussion about it" without further explanation is bad form.
 
I didn't say they were "pro" studios, and yes I totally agree that they are part of the problem.

Again, I am not defending or excusing piracy. I'm trying to talk about it in a rational way without falling all over myself virtue signaling to everybody on the forum about how I'm just so mad at these darn pirates so I can be a more accepted member of the group, without any real attempt to understand why it is happening or what can be done about it.

I get the perspective you’re coming at it from.

I think FAS just needs to keep dropping killer plugins. That’s how they win. Their core base will support them, and if the plugs are awesome, it will generate more sales outside of their base. (Both legitimate and illegitimate) Worrying about dudes using cracks seems futile. Do your best to prevent it, but just try to win with killer products. The more people are enjoying the plugs the more they will consider the hardware, and vice versa.
 
I'm not sure what you thought would happen after leading off like this though?

Feels like you knew it was going to come and you invited it?

It was my way of setting the expectation that what I was saying wasn't going to be the most pleasant thing to hear, but hopefully would show I had some self awareness about the sensitivity of the subject, and perhaps I had a broader point to make in an attempt to talk about it.
 
While I have no desire to debate anyone about it as I don’t sell plugins nor know enough of that world from a tech standpoint, but I caught a bit of ‘negotiating with terrorists’ vibe from your post. This planet is scarred and fucked all over because the few who ruin it for the many are allowed to get their way FAR too often and I know it wouldn’t sit well with me if, as a company owner, I had to make decisions based off the few bad apples more than the actual customer base.

I suppose most of all, it’s insulting/infuriating to live in a world of “Well, it’s not going away so get used to it” when “it” is a moral situation where the right and wrong presents itself immediately and without question, but as a society we just allow it to continue rather than figuring out what can be done to stop it.

All due respect, I think this mindset is part of the problem. You're categorizing pirates as "terrorists" and fully writing them off as flatly terrible evil bad people as opposed to seeing them as potential customers to win back. One of those approaches is more profitable. Just ask Valve Software, a video game company of 336 employees, worth over $20 billion as of last year, who got there very specifically because of their understanding of the problem of piracy and the system they designed to address and counter it.
 
I'll probably get dog-piled for this, but here goes anyway:

First, I absolutely agree that any piracy is totally immoral and wrong. Not defending or justifying piracy whatsoever. HOWEVER, the goal of the business should not be to shift things into an us/them scenario. The more a business attempts to moralize and drive a divide between customers and pirates, the more the pirates will turn it into a war against the people "looking down their noses" at the pirates, the more diligently the pirates will devote themselves to pirating everything you release. What I'm saying is you can complain about pirates all day long and blame all your problems on them, but that won't put food on your table or keep your people employed. To the contrary, more often than that it just makes things worse, even if what the business is saying is completely true.

The other thing that needs to be said is that 1 pirated copy ≠ 1 lost sale, no matter who would try to have you believe otherwise. Most pirates never would have purchased the product either way. Actually in some cases piracy can even be a good thing because if the product is good, it's effectively free marketing. Word gets out to more potentially paying customers who never would have heard about your product otherwise. What is better for a business, 100 sales, OR 110 sales and 1,000,000 pirated copies, where 20 of the legit sales came from people who otherwise wouldn't have heard about the product if not for pirates making it popular by talking about it?

Piracy also has a cost to the user. There's a good chance anything pirated you get will contain computer-destroying malware. You often have to go to the ends of the internet's sketchiest places to find it, those places themselves also often full of malware. A lot of users would rather pay for the real deal and get the "better service" of a clean and direct software delivery platform. Steam recognized this years ago and they built their entire business on this principal, and now they're a multi-billion dollar business, far and away the best platform for video games in their industry to the tune of commanding 74-75% global market share. People would rather pay for a game on Steam than pirate it for free because the user experience is better than piracy.

In a perfect world, piracy would not exist. I am not defending it, just trying to shed some light on things. Publicly gnashing your teeth at it won't make it go away, so you might as well try to fully understand it so you can attack it and defend against it with greatest efficiency. You're free to write it off completely and say "well pirates are just evil terrible people who I am better than" but again, that won't put food on your table or keep butts in seats at the studio.


So what can you do, right now, to help stop the piracy? Here's an idea. If I was Cliff, I'd release my own special "pirated" version of the software that would work fine for about [random number of minutes] after initial launch, but then all the functionality would break over the course of another [random number of minutes], after which the sound would garble up and quit working. Do not explain that it's a pirated copy, do not throw a middle finger at the pirate. No gotcha moments. Instead, let the pirate draw the conclusion that "the pirated version" of the software "must not have been pirated right" and that they should instead get the real thing if they want it to work. Flood this version all over the place to obfuscate the actual pirated version so pirates have a higher chance of getting the "special" version. This effectively manipulates the market such that purchasing the legitimate version will guarantee a vastly superior experience vs the experience of trying to find a "working" pirated version by scouring through the worst places on the internet.
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That's an interesting claim. I'd love to see you prove it.
You don't have any industry experience, you don't make or sell plugins, and you don't have any proof that piracy does not impact sales.

I on the other hand, do make plugins, do sell plugins, have worked in plugins for 20 odd years at this point, and I have evidence:

I also have anecdotal experience where I can tell you, once BFD2 had been cracked back in 2009 or so, sales of the plugin dropped by around 30% that year. It did recover slightly later as I recall, but piracy definitely impacted the sales of what was at the time, the premier choice in drum software.
 
All due respect, I think this mindset is part of the problem. You're categorizing pirates as "terrorists" and fully writing them off as flatly terrible evil bad people as opposed to seeing them as potential customers to win back.

They are thieves and scum. I would rather they end up in prison than win them as customers. They are certainly not people I would ever want to willingly do business with.
 
They are thieves and scum. I would rather they end up in prison than win them as customers. They are certainly not people I would ever want to willingly do business with.
I agree. At the very best, they're dumb kids with no money, that can't make the mental connection that using cracked software is akin to shoplifting. Otherwise, they're fucking scumbag thieves.
 
They are thieves and scum. I would rather they end up in prison than win them as customers. They are certainly not people I would ever want to willingly do business with.

Your opinion is certainly your right to have. But "good luck and have fun with your sub-optimal business" is the only rational response to it.
 
not entirely without merit:


Nah, that's something different. That's simply a case of a crack that didn't completely circumvent all the anti-reversing mechanisms in the software. That's quite common in early versions of cracks. That is not the intentional distribution of a crack by the vendor as the OP suggested.
 
If your “friends “ are running pro studios and are scanning the internet for pirated software to use instead of being paying customer they are part of the problem
Back in the fxpansion days, I recall a few big name artists in the house and trance scenes, clearly running cracks of our stuff. They're such fucking glue sniffers that they didn't even attempt to hide it when doing videos for SoundOnSound and Future Music and such.
 
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