laxu
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Fractal Audio Systems VP4 - Virtual Pedalboard
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Sascha Franck
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Did you mock this up or is it for real? Because so far I've only seen "Type" options below the blocks in the videos/screenshots and just now this in the manual:
It also says: "Labels show the functions of ABCD knobs on many pages.", which I find to be kinda vague.
I have as well been searching the manual for "display" and didn't find any more information. So my guess would be that you mocked that up (or I'm just missing something obvious).
And fwiw, yes, that is precisely what I would want things to be like. I'd even say such a mode is a must on all "modern" MFX pedals. It's the first and foremost reason why you can edit things fast without an editor.
laxu
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The Boss MS-3 is a very different product though. It's a loop switcher first with some Boss fx built in as a convenience. If that's what you need then the VP4 is definitely not the product for you.
The VP4 appeals to those of us who know Fractal's fx quality, but maybe don't want to deal with the complexity of the FM3. I think Fractal has made some good choices here to simplify the fx section and onboard operation to make it more appealing as your one stop shop for effects.
I'm sure Fractal can improve its capabilities in future fw updates. More comprehensive MIDI control options (e.g "send these MIDI commands when I press footswitch 1 in preset 5") would be nice, and there's clearly some operation modes they could consider adding to make it more efficient to work with.
laxu
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Yeah it was just a quick mockup.
I like the idea, but it would probably have to be some display mode you need to pick like "Editor view" or something because it probably conflicts with other operations.
Sascha Franck
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Sure, that's why I mentioned it could/should be an additional mode.
For me, not having such a mode is a showstopper, no less - and I'm actually quite astonished it doesn't already exist. After all it's 2024 not 1998.
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The all-in-one solution doesn't really suit a lot of people. For various reasons:
- They tend to be complex, and editing them on the fly is a chore.
- Some people don't want to be painted into a corner in terms of which effects they can use.
- Some people don't like being tied down to one manufacturer.
- Floor real estate is either not a concern for them, or it is and so they need a capable device that isn't limited to just one effect category.
I've noticed that a lot of the naysayers are pure modelling unit people; they don't use valve amps anymore, and have completely moved over to the "all in one" mindset.
But I'd wager that the vast majority of players today are still using small, medium, large, spaceship pedalboards with a variety of effects and manufacturers on it, along with some kind of amp - whether it is solid state, modelling, valve, or one of the new "amp in a pedal" type things that a lot of manufacturers are doing.
I don't think most people are relying entirely on a Helix, Axe FX, Boss GT, Kemper, Quad Cortex, type unit.
The above reasoning is precisely why I own so many variations. I can't commit to a single piece of gear. Closest I got was Helix, where I used it as my main amp modeller and multi-effect from 2016 to about 2019, before I started wanting other gear.
- They tend to be complex, and editing them on the fly is a chore.
- Some people don't want to be painted into a corner in terms of which effects they can use.
- Some people don't like being tied down to one manufacturer.
- Floor real estate is either not a concern for them, or it is and so they need a capable device that isn't limited to just one effect category.
I've noticed that a lot of the naysayers are pure modelling unit people; they don't use valve amps anymore, and have completely moved over to the "all in one" mindset.
But I'd wager that the vast majority of players today are still using small, medium, large, spaceship pedalboards with a variety of effects and manufacturers on it, along with some kind of amp - whether it is solid state, modelling, valve, or one of the new "amp in a pedal" type things that a lot of manufacturers are doing.
I don't think most people are relying entirely on a Helix, Axe FX, Boss GT, Kemper, Quad Cortex, type unit.
The above reasoning is precisely why I own so many variations. I can't commit to a single piece of gear. Closest I got was Helix, where I used it as my main amp modeller and multi-effect from 2016 to about 2019, before I started wanting other gear.
laxu
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Totally agree.
I moved from Axe-Fx 3 -> mostly Strymon pedals because I figured I didn't need everything the rack unit did, whereas the FM3 didn't work for me as an fx unit because it's cumbersome to operate. HX Stomp and HX Effects make similar compromises, while the QC effects are not good enough as I felt they didn't compare favorably to Line6 or Fractal.
I don't enjoy sitting in front of a computer with a guitar in my lap, clicking on a computer editor as a primary means of operation. I sit there all day long for work already, so for playing guitar, I prefer nice boxes on my desk with knobs to twist.
The VP4 might be in that sweet spot for me where I get most of the benefits of modelers (preset visibility, scenes), Fractal's stellar fx quality, with easy enough operation that I'm not actively hating using it when I want to tweak something to accommodate a different guitar etc.
Sascha Franck
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Fwiw, coming to think about it, this is sort of exactly the unit I was looking for before I purchased the HX Stomp (when going back from a Helix Floor to a hybrid solution for a number of reasons). Basically, what I wanted was spatial FX (hence mainly delays and reverbs) in a single box.
Was looking around and found the TC Plethora, the Mooer Ocean Machine and little else (fwiw, I was using my really stinky old Zoom G3 as an intermediate solution and it wasn't really bad). Also considered an HX FX but thought it was too big back then, not the case anymore, so the VP4 would fit as well.
Anyhow, so far this isn't for me, and I'm yet undecided about future plans for my bigger board, too (I may as well not build one - but we all know how it is...), but as far as any spatial-FX-and-then-some box goes, this is likely the unit to take the crown (lack of the edit operation mode mentioned above remains a showstopper, though).
Was looking around and found the TC Plethora, the Mooer Ocean Machine and little else (fwiw, I was using my really stinky old Zoom G3 as an intermediate solution and it wasn't really bad). Also considered an HX FX but thought it was too big back then, not the case anymore, so the VP4 would fit as well.
Anyhow, so far this isn't for me, and I'm yet undecided about future plans for my bigger board, too (I may as well not build one - but we all know how it is...), but as far as any spatial-FX-and-then-some box goes, this is likely the unit to take the crown (lack of the edit operation mode mentioned above remains a showstopper, though).
Without physical controls you can't operate the unit anymore when somebody spills liquid on the screen.
Or maybe a quick double-tap on the switch to quickly jump to the Edit screen of that effect.
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More than I’m concerned about other people spilling things on it, my own sweat ends up covering my boards most of the time. It’s part of the reason I started putting my boards at an angle to the mic stand instead of directly in front of it, the sweat would drip off my face and directly on my pedalboard.
I don´t know, mate. I think you´re over simplifying what the ms-3 is. Those convenience built in effects are actually 122. It has every effect that 99% of guitarists will ever need (IMO). Then, it also offers 3 loops (a fantastic option if you want a hybrid pedalboard/amp rig), and a relay to control amp channels, and 5 fully customizable and assignable footswitches, 2 expression/ctl sockets, regular MIDI out, global EQ...
As I see it, it features all that the VP4 does, and then several more things. But I think they both serve for the same purposes, being the Boss more complete.
I understand that effects will be much worse than Fractal ones (ehem) and UI is way more dated. And I understand that you can´t compare Fractal to Boss. So I get it... the price is justified.
I´m sure I wouldn´t notice that big of a difference, so for me the choice is clear.
Correct. That´s it.
Boudoir Guitar
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(preferably without the box)
laxu
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Here's the various parameter edit ideas thrown around by me, Sascha and yek condensed into one mockup. Color coding has no other relevance than to separate the different ideas.
- Helix style params: Separate view mode, maybe paging from Effects layer.
- Press knob: For example you are editing block C (delay) and want to go to block A (drive), you simply press knob A.
- Double-tap footswitch: Double tap footswitch 2 to open block B (chorus) editor.
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Sascha Franck
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But why any extra action at all? Also, you'd have to exit the editing screen then - yet some more click action.
Seriously, offer a mode with the "Select" encoder selecting the blocks (which it likely already does anyway) and then have the 4 most relevant parameters showing up instantly. The page arrow buttons would take you to the remaining parameters.
I don't think there'd be any quicker way to do some smaller edits to existing patches. And IMO it's absolutely crucial being able to jump between blocks while editing in case they are kinda interconnected. Especially things such as compression and drives but also delays and reverbs (if used simultaneously) are very interactive, so I don't want to waste time jumping between them.
Also, when you're using the unit live, you may need to do some quick last minute changes during soundcheck. Or you possibly want to bow down and quickly get into some delay feedback mayhem. Again: The less clicks, the better.
Defining which would be the 4 most relevant parameters should be very easy in most cases, too. And if people really wanted, I'm sure the guys at FAS are programming wizards enough to give you customized quick access edit settings (maybe saved within a block preset).
Really, I'm absolutely astonished this doesn't exist yet. Look at Line 6's HX series or at the Boss GTs. They're all featuring it (the GTs somewhat less so).
Sascha Franck
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I think all of them could easily co-exist, but I'd still vote for instant access as my personal #1. As said, I would even consider the lack of it a showstopper. Once I'd have all my patches ready, this would possibly be the only mode I'd ever use.
ejecta
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Slowly becoming?
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laxu
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I'd like both your idea and pressing the knob (or maybe double-click like on the other Fractals). Sometimes you want just the basics, sometimes you want to edit the whole param set.
I think double tap is the most risky to trigger by accident, but could see it as a live feature. Double tap footswitch, crouch down to turn a knob, get back up and play.
Sascha Franck
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And fwiw, if there was a double tap feature for the footswitches, I'd rather reserve that for a performance related thing. Just saying...
Sascha Franck
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Yeah. sure. But I'd defenitely make that optional.
Fwiw, pressing a knob for the full enchilada of parameters obviously is fine, too.
