Fractal Audio Systems mystery product speculation

[DLC86]

It was called the FX8. Could be that they are reviving the concept with the new models they have come up with since then.

Cliff also publicly stated that the FX8 didn't have much success so I doubt they'll release something similar... but maybe a cheaper and smaller (something that could easily be integrated in a pedalboard) version could have its place?

 

[SeeD]

Not gonna happen. Cliff has publicly stated, multiple times, he's not interested in profiling, and believes modelling to be a superior approach.

...

 

[BenIfin]

Not gonna happen. Cliff has publicly stated, multiple times, he's not interested in profiling, and believes modelling to be a superior approach.

Not really the case. See Cliff's response in this link from 12 months ago when Kemper released their process and C.K made a point of saying it was already patent protected.

Fractals Liquid Profiling Response Comments

Ben

 

[Lysander]

Not really the case. See Cliff's response in this link from 12 months ago when Kemper released their process and C.K made a point of saying it was already patent protected.

Ten billion profiles/captures = one amp

If you have an amp with 10 knobs, no other switches, channels etc and you ‘capture’ every permutation of the knob settings you can capture the ‘whole’ amp. Then you have a control ‘model’ that lets you adjust 10 virtual knobs to dial in the amp sound you like. and you have some kind of machine...

thegearforum.com

I presume the patent protected thing you refer to is this post, where Fractal's Tone Matching patent is described.

 

[laxu]

Ten billion profiles/captures = one amp

If you have an amp with 10 knobs, no other switches, channels etc and you ‘capture’ every permutation of the knob settings you can capture the ‘whole’ amp. Then you have a control ‘model’ that lets you adjust 10 virtual knobs to dial in the amp sound you like. and you have some kind of machine...

thegearforum.com

I presume the patent protected thing you refer to is this post, where Fractal's Tone Matching patent is described.

Both Kemper and Fractal have a patent for basically the same thing. I don't understand them well enough to be able to say what the difference is and if it's valid enough to have two patents.

Fractal's was filed and approved first so technically Kemper's patent should be made void if it's too similar. Kemper's patent seems to be pending in the US but approved in Germany.

I think this is the Kemper patent: https://patents.google.com/patent/US20230300530A1/en?inventor=Christoph+Kemper

 

[Achilles]

Both Kemper and Fractal have a patent for basically the same thing. I don't understand them well enough to be able to say what the difference is and if it's valid enough to have two patents.

Part of the money you pay the patent office goes towards them making sure your design "does not infringe on any prior art" before they put in the effort to assign and register a new and unique patent.

They have to be different enough to have passed their requirements.

 

[laxu]

Part of the money you pay the patent office goes towards them making sure your design "does not infringe on any prior art" before they put in the effort to assign and register a new and unique patent.

They have to be different enough to have passed their requirements.

That doesn't mean they don't slip through because you have to be an expert in this stuff to understand the nuances.

There are tons of approved patents that are downright ridiculous that they got approved in the first place. Patent trolls are a thing because of this.

 

[Achilles]

That doesn't mean they don't slip through because you have to be an expert in this stuff to understand the nuances.

There are tons of approved patents that are downright ridiculous that they got approved in the first place. Patent trolls are a thing because of this.

For certain, but they go deep enough as not to get themselves in trouble legally.

As far as technology patents go, this sort of shit is nothing.
Imagine what goes into trying to patent an entire software based operating system!

 

[Whizzinby]

Not gonna happen. Cliff has publicly stated, multiple times, he's not interested in profiling, and believes modelling to be a superior approach.

It makes less sense for FAS because they already have a huge library of models.

And he’s gone to great lengths to make everything on his devices sound great, so it makes little sense that he would be desirous of turning over control to people to potentially make shitty captures and share it with the world under the Fractal banner.

 

[Achilles]

People making shitty captures and share it with the world under the Fractal banner.

Funny, go to the Kemper or Neural cloud and you'll find a shit ton of profiles and captures of Fractal models.
God only knows how accurate any of those are.

Fractal getting into that game could actually improve upon them!

 

[Lysander]

Funny, go to the Kemper or Neural cloud and you'll find a shit ton of profiles and captures of Fractal models.
God only knows how accurate any of those are.

I'm 100% certain there're a lot of (paid) captures out there for "expensive" amps which are instead created from Fractal devices.

 

[Whizzinby]

Funny, go to the Kemper or Neural cloud and you'll find a shit ton of profiles and captures of Fractal models.
God only knows how accurate any of those are.

Fractal getting into that game could actually improve upon the current library of FAS captures and profiles
currently out in the wild!

Which is exactly why I skip all the capture bullshit and just use models!

 

[JiveTurkey]

Which is exactly why I skip all the capture bullshit and just use models!

 

[Achilles]

I'm 100% certain there're a lot of (paid) captures out there for "expensive" amps which are instead created from Fractal devices.

I'd go 99.94% certain just to be safe.....

I'm pretty doubtful of that since all of the profiles or captures I played of digital models from Fractal or Line6 didn't sound good at all.
Having owned and played their stuff first hand it was pretty weird how badly they profile and capture actually.

You'd think a digital device capturing another digital devices signals would be more accurate than with analog.

 

[Lysander]

I'd go 99.94% certain just to be safe.....
I'm pretty doubtful of that since all of the profiles or captures I played of digital models from Fractal or Line6 didn't sound good at all.

Oh, there's plenty of shit captures out there. But, there's simply no way to verify provenance on a capture/profile; it can be anything. And mimicking amps through a line out is something that modelers have excelled at for almost a decade now.

I have no proof, but i also have no doubt

 

[Orvillain]

You'd think a digital device capturing another digital devices signals would be more accurate than with analog.

The capture device doesn't know if the source is analog or digital. It doesn't even know if it is a guitar amp, or a bass amp, or a chicken. All it knows is... input stream of numbers correlates to output stream of numbers.

 

[Achilles]

The capture device doesn't know if the source is analog or digital. It doesn't even know if it is a guitar amp, or a bass amp, or a chicken. All it knows is... input stream of numbers correlates to output stream of numbers.

Pretty certain the weird BZZZZ, POP, BLEEP BLEEP BLEEP, HUMMMMM, etc. signals the capture device feeds into the amp
are designed around digitizing the responses of analog circuitry.

HA! That's the next product around the bend though. A digital model specific capture box....

"Why blow all your money on a Helix or AXEIII when you can just pick up the new DigiDupe from Hotone?"

 

[Orvillain]

Pretty certain the weird BZZZZ, POP, BLEEP BLEEP BLEEP, HUMMMMM, etc. signals the capture device feeds into the amp
are designed around digitizing the responses of analog circuitry.

I believe they're designed to measure the response of various characteristics (that could be shared across analog and digital devices), but fundamentally the device doesn't know what it is connected to. It just knows that it puts out the measurements, and gets back data it can use to build a model with.

It is a bit like measuring wood, versus measuring metal, versus measuring foam.... the operator knows what is being measured.. but the ruler or tape measure has no clue. It just knows that X is 10cm wide, 20cm long, and 50cm deep.

 

[Lysander]

I believe they're designed to measure the response of various characteristics (that could be shared across analog and digital devices), but fundamentally the device doesn't know what it is connected to. It just knows that it puts out the measurements, and gets back data it can use to build a model with.

^^^ This. They're just general impulse test signals.

 

[likitlikeyoulikeit]