Fender Tone Master Pro: Episode IV - A New Hope

[Jarick]

Glad you're loving it. After a year, I find mine to not sound as good to me as my FM9, particularly in pure amp and cabinet sounds. And the limited selection of sounds available keeps the TMP relegated to practice duty, with the FM9 being my primary writing and sound creation tool. If they ever open the selection up a bit, I may be able to do an apples to apples comparison in terms of my own use case. That said, I think having multiple modelers is a good idea anyway.

Which amps are you missing in the TMP?

I'm about 99% sure I'll sell my Axe 3 but I'll probably end up with an FM3 or FM9 at some point, unless they release a new unit next year. Every time I sell a Fractal unit I miss it and buy another one.

 

[JiveTurkey]

From my own POV (from a year or so ago when I had one for a minute); the Mark and the Rectifier all sounded like slightly higher fidelity versions of the same amps from the GTX. No JVMs either.

 

[metropolis_4]

I liked several of the Fender amps in the TMP better than the Fractal models. Particularly the Deluxe Reverb.

 

[Jarick]

Several. It's a pretty large number, as the TMP selection is still pretty spare (and not growing particularly quickly). EL-84 amps that aren't an AC30, a Vibrolux, and the Dr Z, among others.


My attitude is that trying to declare a 'best' is a fool's errand. They all do something well. Get the one or ones that do the things well that you value.

I would love to see a Matchless DC-30 added. I've always loved the sound of the amp, although most digital versions I don't like as much. Honestly though I have a hard time telling apart the EL84 amps once they're running through the same IR.

 

[Jarick]

I do not, but that and a couple of bucks will get you a cup of coffee.

Anyway, I'm content with the TMP as a practice device while they work to (as I see it) catch up. We'll see whether or not they do. It feels like each update contains lots of small moved on multiple fronts and a few splashy effects that I don't use. But that's just a matter of me not having the same priorities they have.

I've been A-B comparing the AC30 in the TMP against the DC-30 in the Axe 3 and I just can't tell too much apart. I could very well not have the best ears to hear these things though. The one thing that I heard is as I turn the gain up on the Fender there's a lot of low end where the DC-30 stays much leaner. Turning the bass control down though they're really close.

Maybe I'll update my amp comparison clips...

 

[Tritium3H]

I liked several of the Fender amps in the TMP better than the Fractal models. Particularly the Deluxe Reverb.

Same here, including the Soldano SLO-100.

 

[Jarick]

Spent the day reamping my DI dry tracks through the Axe FX 3 and Fender TMP. Soundcloud normalizes the volumes but curious what people think about the results.

 

[ian_dissonance]

Spent the day reamping my DI dry tracks through the Axe FX 3 and Fender TMP. Soundcloud normalizes the volumes but curious what people think about the results.

For me everything up through the AC-30 was neck and neck. I think I liked the Fender plexi a little better and the AFX for the Soldano and HBE, but the AFX also sounded louder on both of those.

 

[Mongillo19]

Both sound good imo.

However, lets say that amp models are 1:1, outside UI, I can't say I'd choose the Fender. You get more amps, more effects, more updates (if that's your thing) with fractal. Yeah the III is considerably more expensive but id guess you'd be able to build the same preset you heard here on the FM3 or FM9.

I should clarify I'm talking USD. I understand it isn't the same elsewhere for fractal

 

[Jarick]

I think I'm going to try and re-bounce these without normalization because the output levels are too different between the two.

Some observations in making these:

• Reamping in Tone Master was really easy, you enable re-amping mode and select it in the DAW and you're done. However the stock preset volume is 53% across the board for some reason so you have to manually boost that up to 100% to get reasonable recording levels.
  
  
• Reamping in the Fractal is slightly more annoying, you change two of the audio settings in the menu and in the DAW you have to set the DI track output to -6. I didn't realize that before so my previously reamps were done too hot.
  
  
• I loaded and ran the same IR's in each device with no cuts using the default speaker impedance curve. Fender defaults to 4x12 Brit GB which is a bit scooped sounding where Fractal defaults to a curve that generally matches the amp. Fractal's curve changes are really subtle to me where the Fender curve changes are much more audible. So I left at default and tweaked EQ to match.
  
  
• Some amps the Fender had much lower gain than the Fractal. The Plexi for instance I had to run a +10 dB boost with the gain cranked up on the Fender where the Fractal I wasn't even running the gain on full. On the Tweed Deluxe I ran all knobs on full with both units but I had to turn the Fractal input trim way down to match the gain levels. And that's after reducing the output of the DI in the DAW.

I'll save any tonal observations for now as I'd be curious to get more feedback.

 

[Jarick]

Both sound good imo.

However, lets say that amp models are 1:1, outside UI, I can't say I'd choose the Fender. You get more amps, more effects, more updates (if that's your thing) with fractal. Yeah the III is considerably more expensive but id guess you'd be able to build the same preset you heard here on the FM3 or FM9.

I should clarify I'm talking USD. I understand it isn't the same elsewhere for fractal

I could see that. On the flip side, if the amps and effects are pretty evenly matched sonically, the Fender has a much better UI without a computer and is more compact physically.

 

[Mongillo19]

I could see that. On the flip side, if the amps and effects are pretty evenly matched sonically, the Fender has a much better UI without a computer and is more compact physically.

For sure. All depends on your unit priorities!

 

[Jarick]

I re-bounced all the tracks without normalization so the levels should be much more consistent. You should be able to hear the sonic differences between the two units a lot easier now.

With these clips I dialed effects levels down much more to focus on core amp tones. I also went back to my favorite old Ownhammer IR's from many years ago. With better ears and equipment to me these sound much fuller and more balanced than earlier clips.

 

[Tritium3H]

I re-bounced all the tracks without normalization so the levels should be much more consistent. You should be able to hear the sonic differences between the two units a lot easier now.

With these clips I dialed effects levels down much more to focus on core amp tones. I also went back to my favorite old Ownhammer IR's from many years ago. With better ears and equipment to me these sound much fuller and more balanced than earlier clips.

Excellent comparison, Jarick. I just listened to it on my Kali Audio IN-8 V2s. They both sound great, although I have a very slight preference for the Soldano, the AC-30, and the BE-100 on the TMP. These models on the TMP have a tighter and more accentuated mid-range, which I prefer.

 

[Mongillo19]

I re-bounced all the tracks without normalization so the levels should be much more consistent. You should be able to hear the sonic differences between the two units a lot easier now.

With these clips I dialed effects levels down much more to focus on core amp tones. I also went back to my favorite old Ownhammer IR's from many years ago. With better ears and equipment to me these sound much fuller and more balanced than earlier clips.

Nice! So you used the Ownhammer IR for both TMP and III?

 

[Jarick]

Nice! So you used the Ownhammer IR for both TMP and III?

Yes I used some of the older ones from the mid/late 2010s. They sound great!

 

[[Nathan]]

Crazy how close they sound

 

[Jarick]

So here's my thoughts on the sound. Recommend listening to the clips before getting my opinions.

Some amps are closer than others sonically, and with the clean amps they tend to sound more similar. As the amps get more gain, the Fractal tends to sound more mid forward and in some cases boxier where the Fender amps tends to sound a lot more like a smile curve with more bass and treble. On the Soldano and BE-100 I had to crank the treble and presence way up on the Fractal to get close to the Fender, where I had to dial the high end back a bit on the BE (Soldano I think I cranked the presence up because it sounded awesome that way).

The Fractal amps also at times sounded more compressed. You can hear on the Plexi clip that the Fractal has a lot more sag on the individual notes near the end of the clip where the Fender does not. It's something I had to watch as well when matching volumes, the Fender has much more of the low end thump when palm muting than the Fractal does. You can hear that on the Soldano clip about half way through, the notes on the Fender jump out a lot more.

One thing though, the speaker impedance curve is drastically impacting the sound on the Fender, much more so than the Fractal. The default SIC on the Fender is the 4x12 Brit GB which is louder and much more scooped sounding than almost any other 4x12 SIC on the Fender. Swapping out to the same Friedman 4x12 I would say gets closer sonically although I still need more extreme settings on the Fractal to get close to the Fender, which sounds closer to my actual Friedman.

Overall I generally prefer the sound of the Fender as it's a bit more aggressive and engaging sounding, but I'm wary about the speaker impedance curve being implemented incorrectly. Still, the tone is excellent and of course the UI is significantly better too.

 

[AZG]

So here's my thoughts on the sound. Recommend listening to the clips before getting my opinions.

Some amps are closer than others sonically, and with the clean amps they tend to sound more similar. As the amps get more gain, the Fractal tends to sound more mid forward and in some cases boxier where the Fender amps tends to sound a lot more like a smile curve with more bass and treble. On the Soldano and BE-100 I had to crank the treble and presence way up on the Fractal to get close to the Fender, where I had to dial the high end back a bit on the BE (Soldano I think I cranked the presence up because it sounded awesome that way).

The Fractal amps also at times sounded more compressed. You can hear on the Plexi clip that the Fractal has a lot more sag on the individual notes near the end of the clip where the Fender does not. It's something I had to watch as well when matching volumes, the Fender has much more of the low end thump when palm muting than the Fractal does. You can hear that on the Soldano clip about half way through, the notes on the Fender jump out a lot more.

One thing though, the speaker impedance curve is drastically impacting the sound on the Fender, much more so than the Fractal. The default SIC on the Fender is the 4x12 Brit GB which is louder and much more scooped sounding than almost any other 4x12 SIC on the Fender. Swapping out to the same Friedman 4x12 I would say gets closer sonically although I still need more extreme settings on the Fractal to get close to the Fender, which sounds closer to my actual Friedman.

Overall I generally prefer the sound of the Fender as it's a bit more aggressive and engaging sounding, but I'm wary about the speaker impedance curve being implemented incorrectly. Still, the tone is excellent and of course the UI is significantly better too.

Crickets around these parts of the forum so I thought I would give the TMP a little bump. So, with another few weeks under your belt what are your current thoughts?

 

[Jarick]

Crickets around these parts of the forum so I thought I would give the TMP a little bump. So, with another few weeks under your belt what are your current thoughts?

I still really like it. It's way more fun and easy to use than other gear such as the Fractal. I haven't played as much guitar as I'd like though due to work and life which is why I've posted less than usual.

Right now if I were to sell off all my gear and keep just one modeler it would be the Fender. I think it does most of what I'd want with a much more appealing UI and form factor than the other gear I've used. There's drawbacks and short comings for sure but I think those are mostly around specific amp/effect models or features that are not in the Fender. I think the quality of the amp and effect modeling is on part with other gear.

Long term it's possible I could sour on the quality of the modeling or lack of features. But right now I'm still pretty happy with the unit. I'm surprised by that as I was pretty critical of the Fender early on and didn't expect it would be competitive. One thing I'm still concerned about is the concept of speaker impedance curves, that still seems off to me. But I think you can work around that to an extent.

Oh one other thought, I was watching a comparison of Jazz Chorus models on YouTube earlier this week...in that one the real amp miked up sounded best and the Fractal version was really bad. I tried creating my own using the Fender and it was quite close to the video of the miked up amp. The usual caveats of "use the same IR" and all that, but for quickly dialing in tones the Fender is great here.