Fender Tone Master FR-10 and FR-12 "FRFR" cabs

[Lysander]

Also, really more of a side thing, but since you have experience with it: did the speaker sim thing seem pretty "realistic" to you? Not in an "oh, this is exactly this speaker" way, but was it competitive with good IRs running into flat mode? I like the simplicity and the idea of being able to offset a little DSP to it, and the integration with my HX Stomp would be nice, but only if it's, well, good.

Eh, it depends on what you expect by "realistic" The built-in speaker sims were fine, but i always got much better results running the PC 112 in flat mode and feeding it signals with IRs from my Helix.

They kinda do the trick of sounding like the speaker was swapped, but i don't think the results will blow you away. The cool thing is you can hook preamps directly to it and get a tone which will sound like an actual guitar cab.

 

[synthpenguin]

Eh, it depends on what you expect by "realistic" The built-in speaker sims were fine, but i always got much better results running the PC 112 in flat mode and feeding it signals with IRs from my Helix.

They kinda do the trick of sounding like the speaker was swapped, but i don't think the results will blow you away. The cool thing is you can hook preamps directly to it and get a tone which will sound like an actual guitar cab.

Okay, noted! It seems like it could be cool for the actual guitar cab type sound just in the context of jamming, not for anything where you need a pro sound or whatever. I'll look into it a bit more, and also try my Stomp running into a guitar cab this weekend.

I'm seeing more and more people say they prefer the latter in the end, whether running into something like a Catalyst, or into a tube amp's return, or into a dedicated power amp, so I'll give it a try. I just have a Quilter amp to work as a power amp right now, but if I like it maybe I'll start to look at things like the Orange Pedal Baby and Seymour Duncan PowerStage (or one of the many old power amps on Reverb..).

The obvious downside is not having the flexibility of going from a Blue Alnico to an Oxford to a G12M or whatever, but not like I had that flexibility when playing through a cab before lol. But the Powercab theoretically being able to do both, and automatically switch between flat mode and the speaker models from Helix preset to preset, seemed like a great compromise.

Thanks again! I really, really appreciate it!

 

[mbenigni]

Okay, noted! It seems like it could be cool for the actual guitar cab type sound just in the context of jamming, not for anything where you need a pro sound or whatever. I'll look into it a bit more, and also try my Stomp running into a guitar cab this weekend.

I'm seeing more and more people say they prefer the latter in the end, whether running into something like a Catalyst, or into a tube amp's return, or into a dedicated power amp, so I'll give it a try. I just have a Quilter amp to work as a power amp right now, but if I like it maybe I'll start to look at things like the Orange Pedal Baby and Seymour Duncan PowerStage (or one of the many old power amps on Reverb..).

The obvious downside is not having the flexibility of going from a Blue Alnico to an Oxford to a G12M or whatever, but not like I had that flexibility when playing through a cab before lol. But the Powercab theoretically being able to do both, and automatically switch between flat mode and the speaker models from Helix preset to preset, seemed like a great compromise.

Thanks again! I really, really appreciate it!

Do not underestimate your Quilter. (Which one, by the way?)

 

[Fireproof]

True But Im always Curious you know that Nagging Question what if? ... Sure I dont Gig but I love great tones in my studio/room
Was a big difference when I compared my Powercabs to the Headrush

Always Be Curious. TM. lol.

I love my ASC10 - but still want to A/B it with the Fender FR10. Just for fun.

Gasp has been raving about it over at The Other Place as well.

So I bit the bullet and ordered a FR-12. Fought off the urge to buy two. I thought it was more prudent to see if I really liked it before committing to yet another $1,100 gear purchase.

I have a pair of the original CLRs which I absolutely love but I got them before the Neo version was available and hoisting them up and down from the pole mounts at 40 lbs. each is a chore. The FR-12 is lighter, the tilt legs are great, and I like the way it looks being a traditional Fender combo player for many decades.

We'll see how it turns out. I'm looking forward to trying it out with both the FM9 and my Atomic Ampli-Firebox Mark II.

To be fair - he raves about everything he purchases in the beginning.

 

[Stratzrus]

To be fair - [Gasp] raves about everything he purchases in the beginning.

But it's notable that he's still using it for gigs. It may well end up on the merry-go-round but it's lasted longer than many.

I appreciate that he's gone through a ton of gear and as a result is in a good position to make comparisons. I don't take anyone's posts as gospel but I think his thoughts about the TM-12 are worth taking into account along with the many others who have shared their opinion.

I don't buy everything he likes, the Iridium for example, but his posts about the TM-12 did encourage me to check it out.

 

[Fireproof]

But it's notable that he's still using it for gigs. It may well end up on the merry-go-round but it's lasted longer than many.

I appreciate that he's gone through a ton of gear and as a result is in a good position to make comparisons. I don't take anyone's posts as gospel but I think his thoughts about the TM-12 are worth taking into account along with the many others who have shared their opinion.

I don't buy everything he likes, the Iridium for example, but his posts about the TM-12 did encourage me to check it out.

Good points. That does bode well for it.

I am super tempted.

 

[synthpenguin]

Do not underestimate your Quilter. (Which one, by the way?)

Just the SuperBlock US, so not exactly a power amp powerhouse, but it did a good job as a power amp for my RevivalDrive before. 25 watt solid state, but definitely a loud 25 watt solid state. Great little amp! That + a Cab M+ powered my pedalboard before the HX Stomp replaced them both.

But yeah, I still have it to try it with the HX Stomp! Maybe today!

 

[aflynt]

I finally played a few shows over the weekend with the FR-12. For both shows I had the FR-12 in front of me like a Monitor. I use in-ears, so most of the time I felt the cab more than heard it. I did pop my ears out for a few tunes each night. For this purpose, and in these rooms, I’d say it’s a wash between the FR-12 and the PXM12-MP.

The FR-12 sounded decent, but not anything mind blowing. Both stages were on the crappy side acoustically and I’ve never used the PXMs in these places either so it‘s hard to gauge the difference. The controls on the unit were very useful (especially cut) and much easier to get to than the PXM. I actually found myself EQing it to be more like the PXM to be honest. Pulling down the bass and pushing the mids up a bit. Cut was very useful for these rooms, though and there‘s no easy to affect that kind of change on the EV.

The size of the FR-12 is somewhat awkward for wedge position in contrast to the PXM. Points to the EV on that front. It’s not totally ridiculous looking or anything and having space between the back of the cab and the legs while tilted is nice for tucking cords in. Same thing in front. I could tuck a leg of the tripod mic stand in there and tuck power cords and XLRs away better than the PXM. It does take up more space though, especially horizontally, and is a lot taller. The size of the PXM is far more convenient for transport. The Fender takes up considerably more space in my vehicle and on the dolly.

I think the choice would be more clear cut in favor of the Fender if I was using it on the back-line, but situations where I need to do that are becoming more and more rare. I’m going to continue bring the FR-12 out for now and see where I land.

-Aaron

 

[Baba]

I finally played a few shows over the weekend with the FR-12. For both shows I had the FR-12 in front of me like a Monitor. I use in-ears, so most of the time I felt the cab more than heard it. I did pop my ears out for a few tunes each night. For this purpose, and in these rooms, I’d say it’s a wash between the FR-12 and the PXM12-MP.

The FR-12 sounded decent, but not anything mind blowing. Both stages were on the crappy side acoustically and I’ve never used the PXMs in these places either so it‘s hard to gauge the difference. The controls on the unit were very useful (especially cut) and much easier to get to than the PXM. I actually found myself EQing it to be more like the PXM to be honest. Pulling down the bass and pushing the mids up a bit. Cut was very useful for these rooms, though and there‘s no easy to affect that kind of change on the EV.

The size of the FR-12 is somewhat awkward for wedge position in contrast to the PXM. Points to the EV on that front. It’s not totally ridiculous looking or anything and having space between the back of the cab and the legs while tilted is nice for tucking cords in. Same thing in front. I could tuck a leg of the tripod mic stand in there and tuck power cords and XLRs away better than the PXM. It does take up more space though, especially horizontally, and is a lot taller. The size of the PXM is far more convenient for transport. The Fender takes up considerably more space in my vehicle and on the dolly.
I think the choice would be more clear cut in favor of the Fender if I was using it on the back-line, but situations where I need to do that are becoming more and more rare. I’m going to continue bring the FR-12 out for now and see where I land.

-Aaron

All great points, and the “wedge vs box” thing is why I kind of paused on my GAS for the FR12. I’m like you, the places where I’d use it, would be because a club didn’t have ample monitoring, or wouldn’t have a wedge mix and an IEM mix for me, but it would still be a “wedge” situation.

I also agree on the, “feeling it more than hearing it” thing, that’s what I do, so, “awesome” sound quality kind of almost doesn’t matter, when using IEMs, as I get my quality and clarity from that.

 

[aflynt]

All great points, and the “wedge vs box” thing is why I kind of paused on my GAS for the FR12. I’m like you, the places where I’d use it, would be because a club didn’t have ample monitoring, or wouldn’t have a wedge mix and an IEM mix for me, but it would still be a “wedge” situation.

I also agree on the, “feeling it more than hearing it” thing, that’s what I do, so, “awesome” sound quality kind of almost doesn’t matter, when using IEMs, as I get my quality and clarity from that.

I do think that in really small clubs where most of the audience is literally right in front of you, having it on the backline might be the way to go. We play less and less of those places lately as they rarely pay enough for it to be worth it.

-Aaron

 

[synthpenguin]

HX Stomp (cabs / IRs bypassed) > Quilter SuperBlock US - FX Return > my 1x12 cab? Wow, extremely good. Like instantly. And bonus is that I also get the (surprisingly nice) reverb on the Quilter too, so I can offset a little DSP to that in some cases (I still want that Blue Sky...).

Does it make a lot of presets (especially cleaner ones) sound sort of same-y? I mean, yeah, obviously compared to when they all had different speakers, mics, etc. But wow it sounds really good and is instantly fun to play. And the SuperBlock is plenty loud for me (it really is a loud 25 watts by solid state standards).

I'll have to play around with it more as a few of my more Marshall-y presets did not sound as good (or even flatout sounded bad), so I think it might be a case of having two presets for some of these, one EQed for whatever cab block or IR and one dialed in for my irl cab. My Fender, Vox, and JC presets all sounded good without tweaking though, even if good in a different way sometimes.

I also want to experiment with also running into my Headrush for a stereo setup. Though I may also just sell that...

 

[Stratzrus]

I think the choice would be more clear cut in favor of the Fender if I was using it on the back-line, but situations where I need to do that are becoming more and more rare. I’m going to continue bring the FR-12 out for now and see where I land.

-Aaron

Great post!

I agree with your last sentence and your overall conclusion. I don't think the FR-12's form factor is ideal for using as a monitor in front of you. I'd personally take one of my CLRs (like the EVs in your case) for that type of duty.

I plan to use the FR-12 for backline use only and would think that's more it's forte.

 

[mbenigni]

HX Stomp (cabs / IRs bypassed) > Quilter SuperBlock US - FX Return > my 1x12 cab? Wow, extremely good. Like instantly. And bonus is that I also get the (surprisingly nice) reverb on the Quilter too, so I can offset a little DSP to that in some cases (I still want that Blue Sky...).

Does it make a lot of presets (especially cleaner ones) sound sort of same-y? I mean, yeah, obviously compared to when they all had different speakers, mics, etc. But wow it sounds really good and is instantly fun to play. And the SuperBlock is plenty loud for me (it really is a loud 25 watts by solid state standards).

I'll have to play around with it more as a few of my more Marshall-y presets did not sound as good (or even flatout sounded bad), so I think it might be a case of having two presets for some of these, one EQed for whatever cab block or IR and one dialed in for my irl cab. My Fender, Vox, and JC presets all sounded good without tweaking though, even if good in a different way sometimes.

I also want to experiment with also running into my Headrush for a stereo setup. Though I may also just sell that...

I'm not familiar with the Superblocks, specifically, but this all jives with my experience using HX with a Quilter M101. I think the 101 is rated at 50W but who knows what these numbers even mean. It's surprisingly loud, and it just plain sounds good - (subjectively) better than any of the other SS power amps have laying around here. I don't doubt the Superblock would tick the same boxes. It might even sound better than some of the alternatives you're considering - e.g. Pedal Baby (up to a point; the Pedal Baby is 100W...) - and it's already paid for.

The Superblock preamp probably sounds great, too, so don't forget to experiment with 4cm. (More HX CPU saved!)

 

[synthpenguin]

I'm not familiar with the Superblocks, specifically, but this all jives with my experience using HX with a Quilter M101. I think the 101 is rated at 50W but who knows what these numbers even mean. It's surprisingly loud, and it just plain sounds good - (subjectively) better than any of the other SS power amps have laying around here. I don't doubt the Superblock would tick the same boxes. It might even sound better than some of the alternatives you're considering - e.g. Pedal Baby (up to a point; the Pedal Baby is 100W...) - and it's already paid for.

The Superblock preamp probably sounds great, too, so don't forget to experiment with 4cm. (More HX CPU saved!)

Yeah, I'm not sure where it stands exactly, but my understanding is that the SuperBlock uses a newer gen of Quilter tech? Don't quote me on that though. But either way, it definitely sounds great! Makes me wish they'd put out a power-amp-only design! And you're right: being already paid for is a big plus haha.

Good thought on 4CM! The SuperBlock preamp definitely does sound (and feel) good! My original plan when I got the HX Stomp was to use it as a preamp into the HX Stomp, basically using the Stomp as a replacement for my Cab M+, but stereo with stereo FX. I did a bunch of A/B testing with the Quilter vs the Helix fender amps though, with both running into the same Helix cab block, and ended up preferring the Helix Fender models, but it was a close one! That said, I think some of the Quilter magic is how they play with a speaker, so it might be a different story A/Bing into an actual speaker.

Now though, if I'm embracing sending the HX Stomp into a cab at least sometimes, the thing I'm missing is a good, Fender-y 10" speaker in a compact cab. It never ends

 

[mbenigni]

Now though, if I'm embracing sending the HX Stomp into a cab at least sometimes, the thing I'm missing is a good, Fender-y 10" speaker in a compact cab. It never ends

I hear ya on this. I find myself wanting to run into an open back 1x12 for half of my HX/QC models, and a closed back 4x12 for the rest. And then you stop and think, "Isn't this the problem I thought I'd solved by going with a modeler in the first place?"

Then again, I have the same problem trying to optimize for both channels of my Mesa TA-30. It's enough to make you throw your arms up and go back to "FRFR".

 

[synthpenguin]

And then you stop and think, "Isn't this the problem I thought I'd solved by going with a modeler in the first place?"

haha yeahhhhhhhh. At least I play a lot with IEMs / headphones, so I can keep justifying it that way

Also, as it stands, I don't really have the setup to leave my cab out all the time. Which is also part of the reason I'm interested in a smaller 1x10 or even 1x8 (?). Maybe an excuse to build a mini one. But yeah, I'm keeping the "FRFR" for now, for convenience, but... who knows lol

 

[Baba]

I do think that in really small clubs where most of the audience is literally right in front of you, having it on the backline might be the way to go. We play less and less of those places lately as they rarely pay enough for it to be worth it.

-Aaron

Same, and this got me thinking, I don't remember if I EVER had to hold a room with my amp, I've always played with a PA/sound reinforcement. And I'm going back to the early 80's with gigging.

Kind of strange.

 

[JiveTurkey]

So I don't like a wedge hitting my face with my guitar. Like, at all. This is definitely a backline solution for sure.

 

[aflynt]

So I don't like a wedge hitting my face with my guitar. Like, at all. This is definitely a backline solution for sure.

Me neither, but I’ve got IEMs in the way to take the edge off.

-Aaron

 

[JiveTurkey]

Me neither, but I’ve got IEMs in the way to take the edge off.

-Aaron

I am afraid of what my sound (and playing) is like if I were to pipe it directly to my ear drums