Fender Rumble 100 for "FRFR"?

[pipelineaudio]

I was at the music store today and lifted up one of the new Fender Rumble 100's and it was amazingly light! Because its 8 ohms and extra sized as a cabinet, i thought it might be the perfect thing to throw a Celstion F12 in and have a really handy "FRFR" combo...Anything wrong with this?

 

[pipelineaudio]

Manual makes it look like a cab sim may be in the way of the power amp output https://www.fmicassets.com/Damroot/Original/10002/237030_bamp_manual_all_revA.pdf

 

[DieSchmalle]

Manual makes it look like a cab sim may be in the way of the power amp output https://www.fmicassets.com/Damroot/Original/10002/237030_bamp_manual_all_revA.pdf

In the block diagram one speaker cab sim block goes to the line out and the other to the phones. It may look ambiguous at first sight, but there really is only one way to read it: No speaker sim on the power amp outs.

 

[pipelineaudio]

In the block diagram one speaker cab sim block goes to the line out and the other to the phones. It may look ambiguous at first sight, but there really is only one way to read it: No speaker sim on the power amp outs.

Are you sure? The circled one seems to be going to the power amp.

 

[Lele]

The circled one seems to be going to the power amp.

It seems to me that it goes to the line out, not to the power amp input.

 

[pipelineaudio]

It has a node dot connecting it to the + side of the power amp input, then again, the + and - have their inputs connected together in the same way, o who knows

 

[DieSchmalle]

Are you sure? The circled one seems to be going to the power amp.


View attachment 9135

I'm absolutely sure.
It's either comp -> speaker sim -> line out OR line out -> speaker sim -> pa. If it was the latter the line out would be a signal source and a mixer indicator would be missing. Even then the cab sim would still not be added to the return signal.

 

[pipelineaudio]

Then why is the cab sim connected via a node to both the + and - inputs of the power amp? How is it you are sure that node can be ignored? Is there a convention for reading block diagrams somewhere that tells which nodes can be ignored? (I'm coming at this from an electronic engineering background, where that node would mean absolutely, positively a connection between the cab sim and the power amp input)

 

[pipelineaudio]

This page seems to indicate that node markers work the same way in block diagrams as they do in electronic schematics. https://www.tutorialspoint.com/control_systems/control_systems_signal_flow_graphs.htm

 

[DieSchmalle]

C'mon. Yes, a node indicates a connection of multiple paths and is not ignored. The limiter feeds both p.a. phases and the cab sim.

 

[pipelineaudio]

Why do you keep avoiding the question? I'm trying to understand why you are claiming this node that connects the cab sim to the power amp can be ignored. You said

there really is only one way to read it

What is the source of this claim?

 

[DieSchmalle]

Why do you keep avoiding the question? I'm trying to understand why you are claiming this node that connects the cab sim to the power amp can be ignored. You said


What is the source of this claim?

I don't avoid the question. I answered the question. "The limiter feeds both p.a. phases and the cab sim." This is only a valid answer if the nodes are NOT ignored. Why do you think that I ignore the nodes?

The source of "there really is only one way to read it": reason. I stated my reasons why only one direction of signal flow makes sense.

I REALLY don't get what the problem here is. Do you have a "signal flow needs to be from left to right" bias?

 

[pipelineaudio]

I don't avoid the question. I answered the question. "The limiter feeds both p.a. phases and the cab sim."

Yes, you are avoiding the question, here it is again: Why is there a node connecting the cab sim and the power amp inputs if the cab sim is not connected to the power amp inputs?

This is only a valid answer if the nodes are NOT ignored. Why do you think that I ignore the nodes?

Because there is a node connecting the cab sim to the power amp input

The source of "there really is only one way to read it": reason. I stated my reasons why only one direction of signal flow makes sense.

What reason was that and where did you state it?

I REALLY don't get what the problem here is. Do you have a "signal flow needs to be from left to right" bias?

No, nodes are omnidirectional. Arrows are used in block diagrams to indicate a left to right or right to left bias.

 

[DieSchmalle]

Yes, you are avoiding the question, here it is again: Why is there a node connecting the cab sim and the power amp inputs if the cab sim is not connected to the power amp inputs?

The cab sim and the power amp are connected via a node. I never stated it wasn't.

Why are cab sim and the power amp in connected? -Because both share the same input signal which is coming from the limiter.

Why is it necessarily the cab sim input and not it's output that is connected to that node? -Because the other side leads to the line out. A line out is not a signal source and in order for the cab sim to work it needs at least one input. Therefore the only way to read this is that the cab sim does not feed the power amp in.

 

[pipelineaudio]

Why is it necessarily the cab sim input and not it's output that is connected to that node? -Because the other side leads to the line out. A line out is not a signal source and in order for the cab sim to work it needs at least one input.

This makes sense and is probably the case, however:

Therefore the only way to read this is that the cab sim does not feed the power amp in.

No, it is most certainly NOT the only way to read this. They used an omnidirectional node connector symbol for this drawing rather than the unambiguous arrow symbol.

Unless, as I asked, if there is a source which shows that node symbols can be assumed to be unidirectional in some situations (in direct contravention to a node meaning EXPLICITLY omnidirectional connection as it does in electronic schematics - in fact in electronics, a node can be rewritten as all devices' node connected terminal sharing the same point in space)

 

[DieSchmalle]

No, it is most certainly NOT the only way to read this. They used an omnidirectional node connector symbol for this drawing rather than the unambiguous arrow symbol.

Unless, as I asked, if there is a source which shows that node symbols can be assumed to be unidirectional in some situations (in direct contravention to a node meaning EXPLICITLY omnidirectional connection as it does in electronic schematics - in fact in electronics, a node can be rewritten as all devices' node connected terminal sharing the same point in space)

If you read the flow chart as a whole and use reason is only one way to interpret it. That is all I was trying to say.

Sorry that I didn't expect pedantic know-it-all attitude from you. Tell me if you want me to assume that.

 

[pipelineaudio]

Sorry that I didn't expect pedantic know-it-all attitude from you. Tell me if you want me to assume that.

Sorry, I wasn't being being the know it all when I did NOT claim that "there is only one way to read this"

Someone else did that

NEVER assume reason when it comes to audio gear...For instance, look at the Line 6 Amplifi series block diagram

 

[DieSchmalle]

Sorry, I wasn't being being the know it all when I did NOT claim that "there is only one way to read this"

I don't consider this out-of-context quoting good faith.
The whole quote:
"In the block diagram one speaker cab sim block goes to the line out and the other to the phones. It may look ambiguous at first sight, but there really is only one way to read it: No speaker sim on the power amp outs. "

Clearly there I stated that the cab sim is connected to the line out. With that in mind there is exactly one way to interpret stuff. You didn't get that. That's all.

 

[pipelineaudio]

Again, that's assuming they're thinking like you. Line 6 and Behringer have proved many times that its not reasonable to make that assumption

 

[DieSchmalle]

Again, that's assuming they're thinking like you. Line 6 and Behringer have proved many times that its not reasonable to make that assumption

If you distrust flow charts in general then why does this thread even exist?
Why did you bring it up to begin with?
Why can't others read it then and conclude stuff?
And why tf am I even responding to this farce?