Can’t decide between Kemper Stage or Fractal

[Foxmeister]

And it is wrong that he is calling it "Modeler" because it is not a modeler, it is a profile/capture device. That must be misleading a lot of people at the guitar community.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this point - as far as I'm concerned, a profile/capture of an amp is still a "model" of an amp, very much playing into the idea of being a "black box" model.

When you take a took across all the platforms, ultimately you have an amp simulation that takes an input signal, processes it, and then outputs a processed signal - how that is actually achieved in practice is irrelevant to the nomenclature, in my opinion.

Currently there is no universally accepted term for what used to just be called profiles, which was fine when Kemper was the only game in town, but now we have profiles, neural captures, tone models, tone captures, and amp clones.

So, I'm perfectly ok with "Neural Amp Modeller" - YMMV of course and that's perfectly fine as it is entirely subjective.

 

[Piing]

We'll have to agree to disagree on this point - as far as I'm concerned, a profile/capture of an amp is still a "model" of an amp, very much playing into the idea of being a "black box" model.

When you take a took across all the platforms, ultimately you have an amp simulation that takes an input signal, processes it, and then outputs a processed signal - how that is actually achieved in practice is irrelevant to the nomenclature, in my opinion.

Currently there is no universally accepted term for what used to just be called profiles, which was fine when Kemper was the only game in town, but now we have profiles, neural captures, tone models, tone captures, and amp clones.

So, I'm perfectly ok with "Neural Amp Modeller" - YMMV of course and that's perfectly fine as it is entirely subjective.

I think you're right. The terminology seems to be technically correct. But that may lead to confusion, because then we cannot use it to differentiate between a "profile/capture" device that takes a snapshot of an amp, and a "modeler" as an "spice simulation" complex programming that emulates the amplifier circuitry with all its nuances. How shall we call them differently?

Perhaps we shall adopt the terminology "black box" and "white box"

 

[paisleywookiee]

Perhaps we shall adopt the terminology "black box" and "white box"

And then maybe “gray box”, where an AI politely asks an amp for its schematics.

 

[Jaji]

I’m actually a long time poster on the GearPage.

I’ve read the Kemper vs Fractal vs Helix vs Quad Cortex vs Boss GT100 debates for YEARS.

I know the ONLY way to know for sure if you’ll like something is to try it yourself.

HOWEVER, I do value personal opinions. I have found that when MANY people agree on gear, that usually their opinions have some basis in fact.

For example, people have said “NOTHING duplicates an Echoplex or a Deluxe Memory Man” (or some iconic piece of gear,) and I have found those opinions to be true.

I’ve owned “legendary gear” AND bought gear that could supposedly duplicate it identically, tested them side by side, and found that some things CANT be duplicated exactly.

I think that is why the Kemper has intrigued me more than the Fractal.

I’m not a “create never before heard tones” person; I WANT iconic sounds. For years I searched for non-Strat guitars that could sound identical to strats— because I WANTED 24 frets, or a unique non-Strat radius, or noiseless pickups, or a locking trem, etc. I spent years on custom guitars and parts swapping, only to discover if I WANT Strat tones, I just need to play a Strat!

But now I’m old, I can’t haul around heavy gear.

If the Kemper CAN duplicate iconic amp tones, I’ll be as happy as a pig in sh$t.

:)

When I was making my decision, I deliberately chose the Kemper because I wanted to either get a profile, or make my own of my favorite amp, the Mesa Electra Dyne. I have made my own, but the one I use is one I got for free from the Rig Exchange on the Kemper site. In fact, I only have 6 profiles that I use and all but 2 are from the Rig Exchange. I have wiped all the stock profiles off of my Stage. Well, they are backed up in my Library.

For the same reasons as you, I made the digital leap. The Dyne is just too heavy and too unruly in terms of volume to haul around. However, I am planning on using all my tube amps this summer at outdoor gigs. If I knew that Fractal, Line 6, or any other modeler out there had models of an Electra Dyne that sounded as good (or better) than what I was able to get, I may have made a different choice. Fortunately for me, Kemper has satisfied my needs in spades.

 

[the swede]

With regard to “spending time with your gear, and learning it well,” I had a helix twice, and spent 3 years with it.

I loved the clean tones and ambient sounds I got from it; even successfully made an Eric Johnson clean/chorus preset which was amazing.

However, I just could NOT get the high gain tones I wanted, despite trying eq’s, dual amps, a ton of IRs, and countless hours of tweaking.

I ended up selling it and building a massive pedalboard that sounded incredible. But THEN, my health went in the sh$tter—

I had an unsuccessful back surgery, a terrible reaction to pain meds which made me suicidal (I’m autistic, bipolar AND have OCD…yup, I won the genetic lottery!)

Then I got told I likely had prostate cancer—which I have a biopsy to confirm this Tuesday. I was also told that there were multiple neoplasias around my abdomen, chest, etc.

SO, I told myself “F this. I’m gonna die, I might as well sell all my gear. I can’t play if I’m dead.”

Then, I sold everything.

However, my pain meds were adjusted, and my mood went back to normal.

Further imaging showed the neoplasias were NOT malignant.

I started to think, “Damn! I might live after all. I think I’ll buy back some gear… but it can’t be a massive full stack, or an 80 pound pedalboard like before. It’s gotta be compact, and sound good.”

So, I ordered a new guitar and a Kemper— the guitar should be here Tuesday, and the Kemper Thursday.

If I DONT have cancer…. We’ll, even if I DO, and have to have my prostate removed (and there goes my sex life,) I’m gonna need SOMETHING to make me want to keep living. For me, that something in music.

I love playing guitar, and I can hardly wait for my new gear!

And, with any luck, I WONT have prostate cancer.

We’ll see.

:)

Thoughts send your way, thats a lot of crap to go through. Hold on to the stuff that makes you happy! If it’s music then enjoy music whatever it may be regarding gear.

Went through the prostate thing with dad, he got it a little too early at 65 but came out fine in the end with no heavy surgery needed. They whole thing definitely makes one think. When they say “all men at certain age probably has it, but they’re so old that it will likely not matter” feels like brushing it off easy. My mind is already damaged by the experience with dad. The angst and worry will always be there for me after that. Wife wants me to checkup because of possible inheritance, but in reality I’m to young for regular prostate checkups according to Swedish health care norm. So I’ll do it when they ask me and try to carry on as usual. Being worried and getting psychological “ill” from that is maybe even worse.

Keep on rocking and do what makes you happy!

 

[Speedyone]

Thank you to everyone who sent me well wishes; it’s much appreciated.

Thank you!!

:)

 

[Warmart]

I hope everything works out for you, too!

 

[dronerstone]

With regard to “spending time with your gear, and learning it well,” I had a helix twice, and spent 3 years with it.

I loved the clean tones and ambient sounds I got from it; even successfully made an Eric Johnson clean/chorus preset which was amazing.

However, I just could NOT get the high gain tones I wanted, despite trying eq’s, dual amps, a ton of IRs, and countless hours of tweaking.

I ended up selling it and building a massive pedalboard that sounded incredible. But THEN, my health went in the sh$tter—

I had an unsuccessful back surgery, a terrible reaction to pain meds which made me suicidal (I’m autistic, bipolar AND have OCD…yup, I won the genetic lottery!)

Then I got told I likely had prostate cancer—which I have a biopsy to confirm this Tuesday. I was also told that there were multiple neoplasias around my abdomen, chest, etc.

SO, I told myself “F this. I’m gonna die, I might as well sell all my gear. I can’t play if I’m dead.”

Then, I sold everything.

However, my pain meds were adjusted, and my mood went back to normal.

Further imaging showed the neoplasias were NOT malignant.

I started to think, “Damn! I might live after all. I think I’ll buy back some gear… but it can’t be a massive full stack, or an 80 pound pedalboard like before. It’s gotta be compact, and sound good.”

So, I ordered a new guitar and a Kemper— the guitar should be here Tuesday, and the Kemper Thursday.

If I DONT have cancer…. We’ll, even if I DO, and have to have my prostate removed (and there goes my sex life,) I’m gonna need SOMETHING to make me want to keep living. For me, that something in music.

I love playing guitar, and I can hardly wait for my new gear!

And, with any luck, I WONT have prostate cancer.

We’ll see.

:)

Dude, feel hugged. <3

All fingers crossed it's not the big C, and even if: chances are it's not a death sentence, if treated right. I wish you all the best!!!

 

[Mongillo19]

Get that sweet sweet Kemper yet?

 

[Speedyone]

Get that sweet sweet Kemper yet?

Yesterday night actually!

But my new guitar also just arrived, and it came with 10-46 gauge strings, which I can’t play tension-wise due to tendon problems.

Gonna change strings and do another setup tonight (may have to replace the nut, because I will be using 008 gauge strings,) then try out the Kemper tomorrow.

So excited!!!!

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Hi all.

I’ve owned the Helix twice, and know what it sounds like. (Sold my 2nd one maybe 6 months ago.)

I’m debating between the Kemper Stage or something from Fractal.

I only use three kinds of tones:

A Fender Bassman or Deluxe Reverb with chorus & delay for cleans

Same amps above with a tube driver for medium gain

Engl, Revv, or Marshall with delay for high gain.

Lastly, I also like ambient tones, so I use a clean amp and chorus/verb/delay for that.

The Helix UI was awesome, but the tones weren’t quite there for me.

I use a pair of "FRFR" speakers and an orange 2x12 open back cabinet, as well as a TCBAM 250 watt power amp.

Since I don’t NEED a ton of amps, and I only need chorus/verb/delay,
would the Kemper Stage be a good choice, or would something from Fractal (FM9, Axe8, AxeFX3,) be better?

I only care about the most “amp like” sound. I don’t need dual amps or complicated fx routing.

So, can anyone sway me in one direction or the other— Kemper or Fractal?

I’m not being a troll or facetious.

I seriously would like to hear people’s opinions on both these two company’s offerings.

Thanks everyone

Simple fir that UAFX Woodrow, starlight Golden or Woodrow and Dream into del-verb

 

[Bob Zaod]

My personal opinion is if I were deciding right now, it's a no brainer for Axe FXIII. Kemper is too long in the tooth.

 

[paisleywookiee]

My personal opinion is if I were deciding right now, it's a no brainer for Axe FXIII. Kemper is too long in the tooth.

I agree. I’ve made no secret of my dislike on reliance of great captures/profiles. But I do think Christof Kemper is pretty brilliant, and I bet if he tosses in some ML along with his own secret sauce, it’ll be pretty nuts.

 

[Stone]

My personal opinion is if I were deciding right now, it's a no brainer for Axe FXIII. Kemper is too long in the tooth.

Do it Bob !

 

[Bob Zaod]

Do it Bob !

Oh I've already owned a FM9 and played through Kemper many times. I'm perfectly happy with my Helix LT

 

[cragginshred]

Had em all twice Save time and $ and get the Friedman IR X. Does any tone you might need really well without the dark compressed mess kempers provide or the million and one tweaking options that leave you so close but so far away in Fractal land
And the IR X is a real amp with tubes!
Your welcome!

 

[Bob Zaod]

Had em all twice Save time and $ and get the Friedman IR X. Does any tone you might need really well without the dark compressed mess kempers provide or the million and one tweaking options that leave you so close but so far away in Fractal land
And the IR X is a real amp with tubes!
Your welcome!

I am tempted. I have been very interested in getting one. The demos all sound fantastic but I rarely pay attention to tone in videos, at least when it comes to influencing whether I buy or not. More interested in the functionality and it has some awesome features for sure.

 

[timbuck3]

My personal opinion is if I were deciding right now, it's a no brainer for Axe FXIII. Kemper is too long in the tooth.

but TMP is like brander newer so maybe that instead of either of these 2?

 

[Bob Zaod]

but TMP is like brander newer so maybe that instead of either of these 2?

Something so brand new like that, I will wait a good 6 months and watch various things. FW updates, reliability, used market etc etc. I just may end up grabbing one but I am gonna sit back and watch. Between my LT, MX5 and now GP-200 I'm pretty set. Plus I just bought a EVH 5150 III, and a Marshall Origin 50. Gotta let the bank account recoup some also.

 

[Enchilada Jones]

Had em all twice Save time and $ and get the Friedman IR X. Does any tone you might need really well….

Lol, I’ve got the IRx coming, and an FM9, and Kemper Stage plugged in at my feet. And I’m confident the Friedman will sound great.
But I’m betting it can’t possibly sound as close as Fractal does to Vox AC30, AC15, Fender ‘50’s and 60’s Deluxes, Bassmans, Marshal Super-bass etc etc
Hell it probably can’t even nail lots of other Friedman amps.

Now will Fractal or Kemper sound so good no one will prefer those amps it simulates so well? Nope , that doesn’t fly either.