Can’t decide between Kemper Stage or Fractal

[TSJMajesty]

do you HAVE to do a lot of tweaking to make the amps sound good?

Absolutely not. At least in the current generation of products (Axe III/FM3/9) I can't speak for the legacy stuff.

 

[Eagle]

Kemper is old tech and you can tell plus you will be chasing profiles for ever. The other issue is you can't really edit much before the profile starts to sound fake and generic. The best tones with a Kemper are usually purpose made for the artist with them involved.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Kemper is old tech and you can tell

How so?
It's still regularly updated, some sounds are mindblowingly great and they only seem to get better with the new liquid profile options.
If anything, the Kemper is among those devices that I may get one day as a recording unit, once the financial situation allows for "you don't really need it but still like it" purchases.
Still a most excellent user interface, too, once you're past some initial routines, you never need to go for deep menu diving, just nice.

 

[Eagle]

How so?
It's still regularly updated, some sounds are mindblowingly great and they only seem to get better with the new liquid profile options.
If anything, the Kemper is among those devices that I may get one day as a recording unit, once the financial situation allows for "you don't really need it but still like it" purchases.
Still a most excellent user interface, too, once your past some initial routines, you never need to go for deep menu diving, just nice.

FX are poor particularly routing options and the amp models lack the complexity of the axe 3 but profile quality is everything on this .

 

[JiveTurkey]

Kemper delays and verbs are beautiful sounding. To my ears at least.

 

[Sascha Franck]

FX are poor

No.

Kemper delays and verbs are beautiful sounding.

This.

Some of the pitch effects with their formant shaping options are absolutely great, too.

and the amp models lack the complexity of the axe 3

Some people just don't need all the complexity. I'd even go as far as to say that most people are overwhelmed by it, myself partially included. I usually get along fine with all things technical but end up finding myself to fool around too much with things just for the sake of it. Ever since I "downgraded" my main setup, I find myself playing a *lot* more rather than twisting parameters.

but profile quality is everything on this

So, get 10 quality profiles that you like and call it a day. Pretty much everything I'm doing these days is based on 2 "amp" channels.

 

[Eagle]

No.



This.

Some of the pitch effects with their formant shaping options are absolutely great, too.



Some people just don't need all the complexity. I'd even go as far as to say that most people are overwhelmed by it, myself partially included. I usually get along fine with all things technical but end up finding myself to fool around too much with things just for the sake of it. Ever since I "downgraded" my main setup, I find myself playing a *lot* more rather than twisting parameters.



So, get 10 quality profiles that you like and call it a day. Pretty much everything I'm doing these days is based on 2 "amp" channels.

If you like it then obviously that's all that matters but I stand by what I said. Complexity that I was referring too is in the tone not the operation. Axe is as easy or detailed as YOU want but you can use the amp blocks as is and they sound good. A/B a Kemper with an FM9 and I would be very surprised if you chose it.

 

[Sascha Franck]

If you like it then obviously that's all that matters but I stand by what I said. Complexity that I was referring too is in the tone not the operation. Axe is as easy or detailed as YOU want but you can use the amp blocks as is and they sound good. A/B a Kemper with an FM9 and I would be very surprised if you chose it.

Apart from the fact that I like some Kemper profiles I've already been playing through as much as it gets, for me there's a whole bunch of more things than just the raw tones, adding up so much that I'd consider them as important. See, tonally, my current setup is doing just fine, but it's far from being anything to write home about. And I could've easily bought, say, an FM9 for the money that went into this setup. Still, I didn't - and I also have no plans of doing so in the near future. Heck, I'm considering a GT-1000 - not because it's cheap but because it might suit my needs better than anything else. The Kemper is another thing falling into that very category (if for different usage scenarios).

 

[Eagle]

Apart from the fact that I like some Kemper profiles I've already been playing through as much as it gets, for me there's a whole bunch of more things than just the raw tones, adding up so much that I'd consider them as important. See, tonally, my current setup is doing just fine, but it's far from being anything to write home about. And I could've easily bought, say, an FM9 for the money that went into this setup. Still, I didn't - and I also have no plans of doing so in the near future. Heck, I'm considering a GT-1000 - not because it's cheap but because it might suit my needs better than anything else. The Kemper is another thing falling into that very category (if for different usage scenarios).

Even if I only used one amp block in either I would not pick the Kemper.

 

[mavrick102000]

Absolutely not. At least in the current generation of products (Axe III/FM3/9) I can't speak for the legacy stuff.

Even with the AxeFX Standard and Ultra you didn't need to tweak the amps to make them sound "Good".

This is one of the key benefits I realized now that I'm a Helix user. Both units can get you there but Fractal's amps default settings are more of what I like to hear across all of the amp models. The Helix requires some slight tweaking to get to the same place for me.

 

[Sascha Franck]

The Helix requires some slight tweaking to get to the same place for me.

Which is why I highly recommend to save your own defaults (great feature btw.).

 

[JiveTurkey]

I tell you what. As much as I LOVE my FAS gear; I still bow down to the Gundy's Stray Dogs profile I gigged with the Kemper for years. Through a 412; it was One of THE best amp emulations where I just plugged directly into a 4x12 and immediately just smiled ear to ear.

 

[mikah912]

I tell you what. As much as I LOVE my FAS gear; I still bow down to the Gundy's Stray Dogs profile I gigged with the Kemper for years. Through a 412; it was One of THE best amp emulations where I just plugged directly into a 4x12 and immediately just smiled ear to ear.

Yup, yup. I'm quite happy with FM9 as my daily driver, but I had no complaints during my Kemper stint on amp quality or effects (I'm not so much into mod stuff like vibe and flanger, but delays and reverbs are everything to me). I'd be good gigging on Live Ready Sound profiles alone.

The clunky Performance configuring, fixed routing, and average guitar synth effects ultimately booted me back to Fractal, but Kempoer Stages and unpowered heads are pretty much a steal now on the used market.

 

[mavrick102000]

Which is why I highly recommend to save your own defaults (great feature btw.).

Definitely. I've been doing this for a bit.

 

[cragginshred]

Lol, I’ve got the IRx coming, and an FM9, and Kemper Stage plugged in at my feet. And I’m confident the Friedman will sound great.
But I’m betting it can’t possibly sound as close as Fractal does to Vox AC30, AC15, Fender ‘50’s and 60’s Deluxes, Bassmans, Marshal Super-bass etc etc
Hell it probably can’t even nail lots of other Friedman amps.

Now will Fractal or Kemper sound so good no one will prefer those amps it simulates so well? Nope , that doesn’t fly either.

The Plexi side of the IR X nails every plexi circuit of all Dave's real amps 100%. I've owned 2 small bixs, BE deluxes, Phil X, JJ ect
The BE side of the IR X is more open and raw than the real BE's which are compressed and too smooth. So the IR X surpasses those,... so there's
that.

 

[Mongillo19]

The Plexi side of the IR X nails every plexi circuit of all Dave's real amps 100%. I've owned 2 small bixs, BE deluxes, Phil X, JJ ect
The BE side of the IR X is more open and raw than the real BE's which are compressed and too smooth. So the IR X surpasses those,... so there's
that.

Ah yes, please continue to validate my purchase

Glad to hear the BE side isn't too compressed. That's a big gripe of mine for modern day amps.

 

[cragginshred]

Ah yes, please continue to validate my purchase

Glad to hear the BE side isn't too compressed. That's a big gripe of mine for modern day amps.

My pleasure!

 

[razzmonid]

So what's the verdict in the Year 2023 on Kemper (Stage and Rack) vs Fractal (assuming either FX III or FM9)?

Who won?

or Helix (Floor or LT) or Quad Cortex?

With all those updates so far.

Kemper? Fractal? Helix? Quad Cortex?

 

[Sascha Franck]

So what's the verdict in the Year 2023 on Kemper (Stage and Rack) vs Fractal (assuming either FX III or FM9)?

Who won?

or Helix (Floor or LT) or Quad Cortex?

With all those updates so far.

Kemper? Fractal? Helix? Quad Cortex?

I'm not exactly qualified to answer as my demands are usually a bit different from others - but then, this might be true for anyone else as well. So here's my personal musings:

For live usage, I'd chose a Kemper Stage or Helix. As I had a Helix already and sold it partially because of the miserable visibility under bright lightning conditions, I'd possibly chose a Kemper. With its parameter locking features it's possibly a better bet for my needs, too. For similar reasons, the FM9 (otherwise possibly the best of all the floor units) gets a pass because last minute finetunings (crucial for the gigs I play) are no fun, to put it carefully.

For most flexibility, "Oooooh" droolings and what not, I'd get an Axe FX. I'd need an external MIDI knob controller to go along with it, though.

For ease of use in an "armchair in front of desktop studio" environment, I'd likely get a Kemper.

 

[laxu]

So what's the verdict in the Year 2023 on Kemper (Stage and Rack) vs Fractal (assuming either FX III or FM9)?

Who won?

or Helix (Floor or LT) or Quad Cortex?

With all those updates so far.

Kemper? Fractal? Helix? Quad Cortex?

The one that works the way you prefer and fits your budget.

You could make various arguments for/against each of them:

• Quad Cortex does a lot in one box, but its effects are not at the level of Fractal or Line6. NeuralDSP hasn't done a great job updating it. Footswitch spacing is a bit cramped. But modern UI, compact form factor, or capture support might be worthwhile features tipping the scales.
• Fender Tone Master Pro is the new kid on the block, but it's early days with various issues.
• Helix is the price-to-performance champion. Helix Native plugin is also great additional value. But your options are "dinky HX Stomp user experience" vs "surfboard size device" for floor units. It's also less powerful than the newer products, even though Line6 has stretched the platform really far and it definitely does more than enough in one preset for most users.
• Fractal is the champ for amp/cab modeling and delay/reverb/modulation effects. Best computer editor, but clunkiest onboard UI. Most programmable footswitching. But Fractal is significantly more expensive than the competition in Europe and their FC footcontrollers are also very expensive.
• Kemper operates differently from the others and comes in a powered version so it's the easiest to use with a guitar cab. But it's 10 year old tech, not the most accurate capture system on the market anymore. It has had a really good run with some baffling ups and downs, like how it took Kemper over 10 years to offer USB audio interface capabilities. I'd buy this only used since it shouldn't be too hard to get.

I feel there isn't a goldilocks device that does everything perfectly - you need to pick which compromises are ok for you. Getting a good sound out of any of them is not a problem. I keep coming back to Fractal, but would recommend a Helix any day too.