Can’t decide between Kemper Stage or Fractal

[Piing]

I have no clue what “black box” vs “white box” means. Can you clarify this?

What is NAM? I also don’t know what that acronym means.

"Black Box" is referring to devices that take a snapshot of an amplifier to create a profile (e.g.: Kemper). It is called "black box" because you capture the amplifier with specific settings, and the options to shape the tone are quite limited.

"White Box" is referring to modelers that replicate the actual circuit of the amplifier using complex programming (e.g.: Fractal Audio). It is called "white box" because it is open to change many parameters of the amplifier. Not only the Gain and Tone knobs, but advanced settings like tubes, power supply, bias, compression, harmonics, grid clipping, transformer characteristics, EQ type and location, output compression, speaker compression, etc. There is a full list of parameters at this link

Both can get very good results and are used by many professionals. The choice is up to the user needs and preferences (and, apparently, to what we are recommending here )

NAM (Neural Amp Modeler) is a profile/capture software plugin that is free and open source. Many users are claiming that the results are better than any of the existing profilers. It is software, so it requires a computer, although someone has managed to run it on a Stand-Alone Raspberry Pi

Note that the name "Neural" is not related to the "Neural DSP Quad Cortex" profiler. The developer says that he was using that name before the Quad Cortex was created.

And it is wrong that he is calling it "Modeler" because it is not a modeler, it is a profile/capture device. That must be misleading a lot of people at the guitar community.

It can be downloaded here:

GitHub - sdatkinson/neural-amp-modeler: Neural network emulator for guitar amplifiers.

Neural network emulator for guitar amplifiers. Contribute to sdatkinson/neural-amp-modeler development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

More info:

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Neural Amp Modeler | Highly-accurate free and open-source amp modeling plugin

Neural Amp Modeler is a free and open-source technology for modeling guitar amplifiers and pedals using deep learning. Get started making music with NAM, contribute to the code, or build your own products using state of the art modeling.

neuralampmodeler.com

 

[DrewJD82]

I’m just hoping that auditioning profiles will help me get my sound quicker than endless tweaking of EQs and various parameters.

I rest my case.

 

[Frodebro]

I have a Kemper, a Helix, and an Axe-FX III. Of the three, the Kemper is the easiest to find good tones quickly (as long as you know what you're after from the beginning). Helix has always been the most difficult and needs a lot of fine tuning to get that last little bit "right." But when you get it dialed in, it sounds great as well.

For ease of use with only the basic, traditional effects chain, I would always recommend the Kemper. If you get into elaborate signal chains or complex routing and switching, the Fractal is unbeatable in that regard.

Helix's strongest point is the extremely intuitive UI. If you want to get up and running without looking at the manual or watching a bunch of tutorials on YouTube, Helix is the way to go.

 

[Foxmeister]

Helix has always been the most difficult and needs a lot of fine tuning to get that last little bit "right." But when you get it dialed in, it sounds great as well.

This was never the case in my experience - personally I've always found the Helix easy to dial in.

I do wonder if this a "genre" thing though - anecdotally it does seem that many people who regularly frequent digital and modelling forums are high-gain/metal players (for the most part), whereas I seldom want to play anything "heavier" than AC/DC, and really tend to live in the clean/edge-of-breakup space.

 

[the swede]

In search of something "better", I've gone from Helix to QC back to Helix, Helix to FM3 back to Helix, and Helix to FM9 back to Helix.

Hope you had that Helix around during all that.

 

[Foxmeister]

Hope you had that Helix around during all that.

Yeah - same Helix throughout the period!

 

[vino_buono]

This was never the case in my experience - personally I've always found the Helix easy to dial in.

The Helix became easy to dial in for me when I switched to a high quality "FRFR". Not sure that this has any grounds and I don’t have much experience with the other units, but I have the impression that the Helix has a less “polished” sound; a less-than-ideal "FRFR" may emphasize some nasty frequencies that are difficult to dial out.

 

[laxu]

This was never the case in my experience - personally I've always found the Helix easy to dial in.

I do wonder if this a "genre" thing though - anecdotally it does seem that many people who regularly frequent digital and modelling forums are high-gain/metal players (for the most part), whereas I seldom want to play anything "heavier" than AC/DC, and really tend to live in the clean/edge-of-breakup space.

Then there's me, I haven't found any of the modelers to require that much tweaking regardless of genre. The default settings for Helix amp blocks don't agree with my preferences so I end up overwriting them. Fractal is more of a blank slate as its main controls just default to noon.

Meanwhile most of Fractal and Line6 effects tend to come with pretty good default configurations that don't need a whole lot of editing to be nice.

Yesterday I spent about an hour figuring out the "perfect" cab sims for my Strymon Iridium. It was basically running a loop through it with each amp model and then auditioning different York Audio IRs as well as building custom IR mixes using ML Sound Lab MIKKO plugin. I found that the Iridium works best with cab sims that are on the bright side because then you have more room with the Iridium's EQ controls to fine tune it to your liking.

Maybe it all works for me because I've had a pair of rather nice Genelec studio monitors for years as well as Sennheir HD 6XX headphones which I find work well with modelers. I also used to run the Axe-Fx 2 -> Atomic FR 1x12 fullrange setup for years and was happy with how that sounded so I'm not chasing some "cab in the room" sound either.

 

[Mongillo19]

Be sure to let us know how you get on with the Kemper!

 

[NightWalker]

late to the party!!i own both devices but i prefer the Kemper tone,but honest answer you cant go wrong with any of those 2 units

 

[Mongillo19]

late to the party!!i own both devices but i prefer the Kemper tone,but honest answer you cant go wrong with any of those 2 units

How do you feel Kemper does high gain? Outside a few profiles, I had an issue getting a tone I liked outside marshall

 

[NightWalker]

How do you feel Kemper does high gain? Outside a few profiles, I had an issue getting a tone I liked outside marshall

Kemper works perfect with any tone,my advice always reset Kemper to factory,also tone depend on the profiles you buy,for high gain try Sinmix,Josh Middletone JTM,STL Mark Lewis Signature,Choptones

 

[DrewJD82]

Damnit, @Orvillain, it didn’t work.

 

[NightWalker]

knowing very well both products (owned 2 kemper and still have the axe 3)

As soon as I have the axe 3, the kemper was taking dust. I prefer the tone of the axe. Impossible to play back with the kemper. Everything is tighter in the axe, less fuzziness.
The kemper is a good product, the clean tones are great, gapless switching, profiling is entertaining. But if I have to choose I stay with the axe without hesitation.

to each his own,i been a fractal user for many years but when i bought the Kemper the axe 3 start collecting dust under my desk,im not going to bash the axe 3 is a pretty cool device but im a Kemper guy

 

[Speedyone]

This is why I guess we all have to try different gear to see what works for us.

For SO many years, I’ve heard “Kemper is untouchable for amp tones,” and “Fractal sounds the BEST, period.”

But we all have different uses— recording, touring, playing at home for fun— and one unit is the better choice than the other for people.

If I HAD the money, maybe I buy both…

:)

 

[Speedyone]

Check out 5:08

That tone sounds great to me. It was a direct capture. He then adjusts the resonance and presence slightly, and it sounds even better

 

[Mongillo19]

This is why I guess we all have to try different gear to see what works for us.

For SO many years, I’ve heard “Kemper is untouchable for amp tones,” and “Fractal sounds the BEST, period.”

But we all have different uses— recording, touring, playing at home for fun— and one unit is the better choice than the other for people.

If I HAD the money, maybe I buy both…

:)

I recommend sticking to one unit and learning it well. I don't listen to my advice tho lol

 

[Mongillo19]

to each his own,i been a fractal user for many years but when i bought the Kemper the axe 3 start collecting dust under my desk,im not going to bash the axe 3 is a pretty cool device but im a Kemper guy

Really? Its not like you have an avatar of it

 

[NightWalker]

Really? Its not like you have an avatar of it

f i need to change that avatar

 

[Mongillo19]

f i need to change that avatar

Oh I wouldn't worry about it! Just making a "joke"