Can’t decide between Kemper Stage or Fractal

[bigcupholder]

If you couldn't get tones you liked out of the Helix, it's unlikely you'll be happy with the Fractal. A profiling/capturing device where you can rely on other people to dial in the tones for you might be a better option

 

[Mongillo19]

If you couldn't get tones you liked out of the Helix, it's unlikely you'll be happy with the Fractal

Idk, I agree the concept is the same but to me the amp models are better on the fractal line so I couldn't discount a fractal unit because you didn't like helix. If ease of use is a concern, hard to go wrong with a profiling device as you stated

 

[JiveTurkey]

People have preferences. Also, if you monitoring "solution" sucks; you could buy the highest end piece or the lowest Harley Benton modeling turd you could find and it won't matter.

 

[Stone]

The Helix can be made to sound great for sure, im no pro, but for me to get tones im seeking to dial in does take me a lot of work, on the other hand because of all my fiddling and experimenting i have learnt a lot about tones, frequencies EQ'ing and compression
on the other hand The general consensus says that its much easier to dial in tones on Fractal units
Also using dual amps and parallel routing seems much better and more intuitive on the Fractal units
YMMV

 

[Speedyone]

What are you going to be using to monitor it with? That is the Million Dollar question.

I have a Orange 2x12 oven back cab and a TC BAM power amp.

Also a pair of Alto TS210 powered monitors.

Neither solution is “Top Tier,” but should be good enough for me to see if the Kemper sounds good enough for me as a heavy pedalboard/Amp Head-Cab replacement.

I will potentially invest in a Kemper Kab if I want things to sound better/different.

Playing my Helix through the Orange Cab and poweramp sounded WAY better than through the budget Alto speakers.

The reason I posted the Fractal clip wasn’t really to say “I want the Kemper to sound like this!”, it was to show everyone that I am aware of how Amazing Fractal gear can sound. I know that it is in fact superior in a number of ways, I’m just hoping that auditioning profiles will help me get my sound quicker than endless tweaking of EQs and various parameters.

:)

 

[JiveTurkey]

I have a Orange 2x12 oven back cab and a TC BAM power amp.

Also a pair of Alto TS210 powered monitors.

Neither solution is “Top Tier,” but should be good enough for me to see if the Kemper sounds good enough for me as a heavy pedalboard/Amp Head-Cab replacement.

I will potentially invest in a Kemper Kab if I want things to sound better/different.

Playing my Helix through the Orange Cab and poweramp sounded WAY better than through the budget Alto speakers.

The reason I posted the Fractal clip wasn’t really to say “I want the Kemper to sound like this!”, it was to show everyone that I am aware of how Amazing Fractal gear can sound. I know that it is in fact superior in a number of ways, I’m just hoping that auditioning profiles will help me get my sound quicker than endless tweaking of EQs and various parameters.

:)

I apparently forgot to re-read your OP

Superior is what works best for you. Whether it's Kemper or Boss or L6 or FAS. I have cheap monitoring solutions as well as (way too) expensive ones and you can get results in either direction. I think you'll dig the Kemper! I actually feel like their delays and verbs are a bit underrated and will do the ambient thing quite nicely \m/

 

[Stone]

Superior is what works best for you

100%, Amen bro

 

[creative360]

Free stuff you find in the Kemper RM is amazing. The famous Morgan. A few great random MBritt profiles (a great Vibro Champ which as a profile could just as well be a Twin). A TAF Carr Slant 6 that ten years later is still a go to.

If you simply must spend money…

Anything Bert M—Wisselnoord Filmo B-Verb—or MBritt. His first pack was on the road with a million bands before he ever made a second. His Grammatico SSS pack is stellar, but I don’t see it on his site anymore. And it’s not trendy but TAF packs for $7 bucks or something are still amazing once you turn off or dial in the effects right. I bought a Supro pack from them before I had a Kemper, loaded it the day the unit arrived and gigged it a couple days later. Still in rotation.

THE POINT BEING. … I’m a tube snob and since day one Kemper tones are there. I spend years on a handful of tones. Maybe you will too. I’ve never spent longer than ten minutes trolling for profiles. Who can do that?

I’m sure I’d be fine with anything. But would I? I went with the thing that’s still used way more than anything else but amps by folks whose tones I like.

Anyway hope you like it. Amps still rule, but obviously digital is a beautiful option.

 

[creative360]

PS You can go to TGP and google the exact same argument, click on a years old link and read the exact same opinions from the exact same ten people as is going on in this thread. Me included. Like the broken Kemper stories … dude sold his last Kemper like seven years ago and he’s still the only person on either site that posts about Kempers failing. (I would NOT return to Kemper if I was him, but the story is still an outlier.) This is a social place. I don’t care who it is, this is not where you come to make a decision. And I doubt you made yours by posting here. Buy the gear that interests you or that folks you’ve heard use that you can afford and make it work or move on. You’ll know it in a minute. Maybe have fun, once the $ sting subsides.

 

[creative360]

PSS A coin toss—that there actually is good advice!!

 

[Speedyone]

I’m actually a long time poster on the GearPage.

I’ve read the Kemper vs Fractal vs Helix vs Quad Cortex vs Boss GT100 debates for YEARS.

I know the ONLY way to know for sure if you’ll like something is to try it yourself.

HOWEVER, I do value personal opinions. I have found that when MANY people agree on gear, that usually their opinions have some basis in fact.

For example, people have said “NOTHING duplicates an Echoplex or a Deluxe Memory Man” (or some iconic piece of gear,) and I have found those opinions to be true.

I’ve owned “legendary gear” AND bought gear that could supposedly duplicate it identically, tested them side by side, and found that some things CANT be duplicated exactly.

I think that is why the Kemper has intrigued me more than the Fractal.

I’m not a “create never before heard tones” person; I WANT iconic sounds. For years I searched for non-Strat guitars that could sound identical to strats— because I WANTED 24 frets, or a unique non-Strat radius, or noiseless pickups, or a locking trem, etc. I spent years on custom guitars and parts swapping, only to discover if I WANT Strat tones, I just need to play a Strat!

But now I’m old, I can’t haul around heavy gear.

If the Kemper CAN duplicate iconic amp tones, I’ll be as happy as a pig in sh$t.

:)

 

[creative360]

I love that post.

Can’t claim Kemper is .. well the experience is just so different. You’ll see. But it is capable of a vibe and simplicity once I’m going that is not completely devoid of the things I respond to when using my (even) old (er) stuff.

 

[Piing]

I steadfastly concur with the thought of Cliff

If you want to quick-clone an amp with fixed settings, get a black box (NAM can do it for free, and eveyone says it is better than any existing profile/capture device). If you like to tweak and re-tune the tone to you taste, get a white box.

He is not into profiling because, besides the ability to change advance settings at the amp, he believes that the quality of accurate modeling is superior

 

[Stone]

 

[Speedyone]

I love that post.

Can’t claim Kemper is .. well the experience is just so different. You’ll see. But it is capable of a vibe and simplicity once I’m going that is not completely devoid of the things I respond to when using my (even) old (er) stuff.

I’m sorry, but I can’t read between the lines of what you’re saying (I’m autistic)

I steadfastly concur with the thought of Cliff

If you want to quick-clone an amp with fixed settings, get a black box (NAM can do it for free, and eveyone says it is better than any existing profile/capture device). If you like to tweak and re-tune the tone to you taste, get a white box.

He is not into profiling because, besides the ability to change advance settings at the amp, he believes that the quality of accurate modeling is superior

I have no clue what “black box” vs “white box” means. Can you clarify this?

What is NAM? I also don’t know what that acronym means.

 

[creative360]

I’m sorry, but I can’t read between the lines of what you’re saying (I’m autistic)

No between the lines, I just loved what you wrote. I don’t want to oversell the Kemper. It’s been great for me, but not so much as a 1:1 replacement for amps, more as a best alternative, versus all the volume weight maintenance etc, and sure also because it brings a bunch of creative functionality that doesn’t exist really with analog. Hope you like yours.

 

[Speedyone]

See, the point he makes is irrelevant to the way I use amps (and soon for me, profiles.)

I don’t NEED the infinite different settings of a modeled amp.

If I want a high gain tone, I’ll find a dimed out Engl or Marshall profile.

If I want a clean tone, I’ll find a 59 Bassman or Deluxe Reverb profile with the gain off and the master at 2 or 3.

Sure, profiling ALL an amp’s POSSIBLE setting would take forever, but I don’t need that.

:)

 

[Speedyone]

I don’t roll down the tone knobs on my guitar or even NEED to use any in between settings on amps.

The way I play is totally pure clean tones and high gain and nothing in between.

But I agree that modeling is superior to profiling in that it allows you to access ANY amp tone instead of a static snapshot of an amp in only one setting.

 

[Foxmeister]

I know the ONLY way to know for sure if you’ll like something is to try it yourself.

In search of something "better", I've gone from Helix to QC back to Helix, Helix to FM3 back to Helix, and Helix to FM9 back to Helix.

Conventional TGP group-think would have it that once I hit the Fractal products, I would have stopped searching and been "happy" having hit Tone-Nirvana, but I still ended up going back to the Helix because it just works best for me, and the tones have always been there.

Currently, I'm mostly working with a ToneX pedal in the loop of an HX Stomp, and I think that may be the sweet spot for me, but I'm not always using the ToneX and still love and use the HX amps more often than not in my presets.

The main takeaway that I've learned from all this (ok, more like confirmed), is that there is *no* substitute for practical long-term experience with a particular modeller to find what works best for you.

 

[Stone]

I don’t roll down the tone knobs on my guitar or even NEED to use any in between settings on amps.

The way I play is totally pure clean tones and high gain and nothing in between.

But I agree that modeling is superior to profiling in that it allows you to access ANY amp tone instead of a static snapshot of an amp in only one setting.

Yes was just pointing out different needs for different folks
not disagreeing on your choice, we all have different needs and tastes