Can’t decide between Kemper Stage or Fractal

[DrewJD82]

You know this is true, But deep editing or tweaking is at your own discretion for needs
One who goes that Fractal route might be simply Presets do it for me other may be Hmm what if ?
but anyone that uses modellers needs to have some form of understanding of tone things what does what, why and how
its not your basic old fart who plugs his Strat into a twin reverb turns a knob or two and smiles, which is perfectly fine if that's your thing
In Essence High end Modellers are really studio & engineers in a box

You’re absolutely correct, but we’re on the frikkin’ internet, Stone. That’s not what happens.

 

[Stone]

Random Quote from a new Fractal convert

Sound quality is on a whole other different dimension. There were many times I would try to recreate a favourite artist tone in Helix, and always kind of struggle to make it work. I would try countless IRs, tweak with random EQ tricks, etc. and it just never really sounded proper. I will admit, there were definitely moments where I thought "man, this thing is so much fun!" over the last few years, but once I heard the FAS FM3/FM9 stuff–I was hooked. I sold the helix shortly after and have immersed myself in tone creation and just sheer enjoyment. I have been playing MORE because the amps are just so real. The feel is there.

 

[Mongillo19]

Random Quote from a new Fractal convert

Sound quality is on a whole other different dimension. There were many times I would try to recreate a favourite artist tone in Helix, and always kind of struggle to make it work. I would try countless IRs, tweak with random EQ tricks, etc. and it just never really sounded proper. I will admit, there were definitely moments where I thought "man, this thing is so much fun!" over the last few years, but once I heard the FAS FM3/FM9 stuff–I was hooked. I sold the helix shortly after and have immersed myself in tone creation and just sheer enjoyment. I have been playing MORE because the amps are just so real. The feel is there.

Is this new fractal convert you? Or someone else lol

 

[Stone]

Is this new fractal convert you? Or someone else lol

haha yes it could be me, I somewhat agree with his experience, but its not me, some guy on the FAS forum
when i get my FM9 and have it set up i will test his hypothesis and i will be giving my .02 cents and thoughts

 

[aivoryuk]

Most of my Fractal presets are Drive/Amp/Cab. I used to add a lot of PEQ’s and multi-band comps but Cygnus removed that necessity and at this point, I’m rarely moving beyond the Authentic (actual amp knobs) page, unless it’s a Mesa Mark amp, which requires the 5-band EQ. The biggest thing is finding the right IR before you go on a tweak fest. I strongly feel people pick an IR that isn’t a perfect match and when they can’t dial in what they’re going for from the main amp knobs they’re on a tweaking expedition.

In general, I keep the amp knobs at noon, find an IR that’s 90% in the ballpark and use the amp knobs for the final 10%. Some people argue against this, but I’d argue I spend far less time tweaking than they do. If you’re spending more than 10 minutes getting the base tone figured out, that’s about 5 minutes longer than I usually spend. After a while you end up knowing which IR’s work best for which amps and you can save them as blocks for easy access.

I find this is the best way - I use Mikko to get the base sound while using the amp eq to check the range of the sound. I currently have one IR that works across multiple amps (usually the same type of amp eg marshall type) and if I need to change something I can tweak the Amp tone

What is really good is you can hear the different characteristics of the amp better this way.

 

[vino_buono]

Damn.

It’s a hard choice!

I guess they all sound good, but it’s a matter of what I want to sacrifice.

I'll chime in with my own experience with Helix, and limited experience with Kemper and Fractal. I have had a Helix for several years now. The new cabs are very good, it is rather easy to get what I want (not so much with old firmware) and the new reverbs are very good. The other former guitarist in my band has had a Kemper and then tried an FM3. Great player, not so great sound tweaker. He sounded awesome with the Kemper using his profiles of choice. When he switched to the FM3, as much as he tried, he couldn't get the sounds he wanted for live use, despite taking paid online lessons on how to use the FM3. To me it's obvious the sounds were in there, he just wasn't able to figure the unit out.

My advice is pick between the Stage or FM9 and don't worry about which one has the sounds you want, they both do. Worry about the rest of the user experience/interface/editor/number of stomp buttons/price/availability,etc, etc

I fully agree with this. IMO, it is more a matter of workflow and how much control you want or are able to exert over the final guitar tone. With profiles I figure it's easier to get a good tone quickly, but I've always preferred the concept of modeling -- eventually it's completely personal.

Last, I have learned that the sound output system is as important as the modeler, if not more. A very high quality "FRFR" has made the difference for me.

 

[Eagle]

FM9 has more life in it. Kemper is good but only as good as the profiles you can buy or make. The Axe is pretty easy to program and you don't need to go past the controls that you would find on the actual gear if you don't want too.

 

[Eagle]

Happy kemper user here…never played FAS...I would however buy a kemper again in a heartbeat if I was to shop for a modeler. I‘m confident FAS sounds great also.

what I like about kemper, and is not there / to a lesser degree on other devices:

- Global cabsim off on dedicated outputs
- Global EQ on dedicated outputs
- Knobs for most relevant parameters on the front
- build in poweramp
- Kone, which makes it a good acoustic solution also

the “profile hunt“ thingy…it’s a non issue. If you cant recognize what you want..you’ll be profilhunting with a kemper..and scrolling amps with a fas. In 6 years I bought 2 packs…and still haven’t tried all of them cause I found something I like quick.

anyway…I’m convinced both units can provide what you need to be a rock god ;-)

Another problem with Kemper is it is very old tech and in the digital world that means a lot . And I can't help thinking the day after I bought one Kemper 2 would be announced.

 

[DrewJD82]

Happy kemper user here…never played FAS...I would however buy a kemper again in a heartbeat if I was to shop for a modeler. I‘m confident FAS sounds great also.

what I like about kemper, and is not there / to a lesser degree on other devices:

- Global cabsim off on dedicated outputs
- Global EQ on dedicated outputs
- Knobs for most relevant parameters on the front
- build in poweramp
- Kone, which makes it a good acoustic solution also

the “profile hunt“ thingy…it’s a non issue. If you cant recognize what you want..you’ll be profilhunting with a kemper..and scrolling amps with a fas. In 6 years I bought 2 packs…and still haven’t tried all of them cause I found something I like quick.

anyway…I’m convinced both units can provide what you need to be a rock god ;-)

Hahaha I knew exactly what I was looking for when I went through the ToneX profiles and in 20 minutes just heard horrible variations of what I was going for.

 

[Orvillain]

haha yes it could be me, I somewhat agree with his experience, but its not me, some guy on the FAS forum
when i get my FM9 and have it set up i will test his hypothesis and i will be giving my .02 cents and thoughts

 

[DrewJD82]

Hahahah so is he.

 

[jellodog]

The Stone modeller saga is perhaps the greatest story of our times. I'm just happy to have been born at the right time to have experienced it.

 

[Stone]

The Stone modeller saga is perhaps the greatest story of our times. I'm just happy to have been born at the right time to have experienced it.

Even more so that the Quad Kotex saga ??

 

[DrewJD82]

Even more so that the Quad Kotex saga ??

Oh that dumpster fire got lit up over at TheOtherPlace, we’re just watching the embers burn from afar now.

 

[jellodog]

Even more so that the Quad Kotex saga ??

Totes. Proud to be riding along side ya, bud

 

[jellodog]

And back on topic:

@Speedyone I'm not unbiased - I own an FM9 and love it.

I personally believe that if you're going digital then component amp modelling is where it's at right now; and the FAS effects are superb. I'm voting for "get something from Fractal". There's so much in the box. Total Swiss Army Knife.

If it turns out that you don't like it, then the units are holding their resale value pretty well at the moment; so your losses should be minimal, should you decide to move it on for whatever reason.

Of course, you'll be able to make great music with either manufacturer's device.

 

[Stone]

The Stone modeller saga is perhaps the greatest story of our times.

The wife is also fed up of hearing me talk about the FM9 and watching every video about the FM9

 

[JiveTurkey]

The wife is also fed up of hearing me talk about the FM9 and watching every video about the FM9

I hope you are walking around the house permanently speaking in an Australian accent.

 

[laxu]

I hope you are walking around the house permanently speaking in an Australian accent.

"What's up, legends?! Uh...I mean, wife!"

 

[TimOwens316]

I haven't read the whole thread TL;DR, haha. That being said, I have the AX8 and the Kemper Rack and Stage (and the QC, please forgive me). As you know, with the Kemper you are relying on the profile, there are some really good factory profiles, some really good free profiles (if you are willing to spend a Sh!tload of time searching through them), and then there are the third party profiles. You can easily spend hundreds of dollars on commercial profiles (like I did) and not get anywhere. In the end, you are stuck trying to find profiles that will work for you.

With the Fractal you are stuck with the amp models that they offer, but there are a bunch of them to chose from. IMHO, and I'm sure this will piss off some people, they are not always accurate, don't expect to dial in the gain and tone controls like you would the actual amp and get the same result, it probably won't happen, BUT, if you can find an amp model close to what you are looking for it really doesn't take a ton of time to tweak it to suit your needs, as long as you are using the computer editor, again this is IMHO.

You mentioned ambient tones, I'm not a big FX guy but I'm pretty sure that the Fractal will win this contest every time.

The other question (at least for me) is the monitor. I use a guitar cab for a stage monitor. That makes things a little bit more complicated with the Kemper. For the most accurate results you would want what they call a Merged Profile, that way you could drive the guitar cab with a clean power amp and send a different signal to the mains that includes the cabinet portion. The problem is that there are not a bunch of Merged Profiles available. I've tried several commercial Merged Profiles and they are honestly not very good. I think the issue is that the Kemper has problems making accurate Merged Profiles, that is (IMHO) why most commercial vendors don't sell them. On the other hand it is easy to setup the Fractal to drive a guitar cab and send a separate signal to the mains that includes a speaker IR.

Just my $0.02.