Calibrating Input Level for Plugins

[Sascha Franck]

How useful is it to see all parameters at once?

Very. At least for me. I pretty much always adjust drive pedals and amps along with each other. And sometimes compression and EQ as well. After all, all these are highly interactive.
Question: Would you want to have to flip pages for each of the BMT controls of your tonestack? See, you won't (unless you've answered "yes", which would make you the only person on earth). And It's pretty much the same with drive and amp blocks.

On UI’s like this, the price you pay is more scrolling, smaller text, smaller knobs to click

No, just no. Why would I have to scroll more? Within the patch displayed, I don't have to scroll at all. And both text and knobs aren't smaller than the Helix counterparts at all, either. Let alone the scrollwheel is actually useable, the trackpad as well.

I also find them more of a pain to change fx types

How is that? Drag and drop over the existing block, done. I absolutely wish that was possible in HX Native or HX Edit. But instead you need to go through long lists each time. Not a biggie but defenitely not faster at all.

That GUI reminds me a lot of GuitarRig.

That UI *is* Guitar Rig.
And sorry, but it's not exactly a matter of taste. I'm not talking about the looks but about the functionality. And as you have quicker access to a broader palette of parameters, GR wins over Helix hands down (and fwiw, I don't like the looks, either).

What year is this?

2024. GR7. Player Edition, which you could try out yourself for free (it's actually not bad at all - if only it wasn't coming from NI).

 

[dronerstone]

And sorry, but it's not exactly a matter of taste. I'm not talking about the looks but about the functionality. And as you have quicker access to a broader palette of parameters, GR wins over Helix hands down (and fwiw, I don't like the looks, either).

I disagree. It certainly is a matter of taste.

Personally, I find that style unnecessary, pathetic and, most of all, distracting.

I strongly prefer the HX UI, where the parameters are more important than presenting a screen that looks like a disgustingly colorful Ice cream sandwich.

Ymmv, nothing wrong with that!

 

[Sascha Franck]

I strongly prefer the HX UI, where the parameters are more important than presenting a screen that looks like a disgustingly colorful Ice cream sandwich.

Again: This is NOT AT ALL about the looks! It's about being able to see the parameters of various blocks simultaneously. And being able to do so or not hasn't got anything to do with taste.

 

[dronerstone]

Again: This is NOT AT ALL about the looks! It's about being able to see the parameters of various blocks simultaneously. And being able to do so or not hasn't got anything to do with taste.

You just can't let go, can you?

I disagree. Just like you do on pretty much anything.

No problem. Agree to disagree.

As I said, ymmv, and that's good! But I'm not stepping down from this debate. Sorry neighbour.

 

[Sascha Franck]

But I'm not stepping down from this debate.

You don't have to. But I'd recommend to at least read properly before you comment.
I mean:

GR wins over Helix hands down (and fwiw, I don't like the looks, either).

which you commented with:

presenting a screen that looks like a disgustingly colorful Ice cream sandwich.

You're mixing up looks with functionality. Even if I explicitely said that looks (at least for this part of the discussion) are entirely irrelevant.

 

[[Nathan]]

My highly technical analysis is that Guitar Rig sucks. The sounds, the graphics the layout all of it. Got it with an izotope bundle and it was uninstalled in a day or two.

I think I used guitar rig 3 a lifetime ago, didn’t seem like much had changed sound wise

 

[BahamaDada]

Quick and dumb question, but when we talk input levels from Helix Floor as interface to Native or Metallurgy, then how do you set this up? Is it just a blank preset that is going on or do I have to use Input 6 (DI signal)?

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Quick and dumb question, but when we talk input levels from Helix Floor as interface to Native or Metallurgy, then how do you set this up? Is it just a blank preset that is going on or do I have to use Input 6 (DI signal)?

use the di signal

 

[[Nathan]]

I dont usually spam links but all of this info has only helped me (and I've passed it on to my circle of friends/people asking questions).
Huge shoutout to Ed and everyone in this thread, all this stuff is really just getting us better mileage out of these products. Legends.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Fwiw, I have just been running into a major issue within Logic. As said before, as recommended by some fine folks in this thread, I have started to keep my Moto M2's input gain at zero. Which is usually working just fine.
Now, when turning down guitar volume, the already quite low levels are getting even lower. But things still work and sound fine. Just that Logic doesn't believe in it. I just recorded a file that I can clearly listen to. But there's no (!) way to make it visible in Logic. Not by using plain zoom, the extra waveform zoom, the audio editor. Heck, even raising the region gain (which is also represented in a larger waveform) doesn't change that.
But as if all that wasn't wrong enough already, here comes: When I open the file in Logic's audio editor and choose "normalize", it's telling me there's no suitable objects selected as everything was absolute silence. WHAT.THE.F**K? Needless to say, Wavelab normalizes the file just fine.
So, to sum it up: There's a socalled "flagship" DAW deciding a clearly audible file would be silence. I can't even believe this is happening. Just that it is.

In case anyone wants to look at it:

 

[[Nathan]]

This is what that looks like when I put it in Reaper:

When I gain it up by about 30+db its in the ballpark of what my DI waveforms look like when I record at 13dbu

@Sascha Franck Could something in your setup be making it incredibly quiet? Looking at this second waveform and thinking it took 30db to get here is pretty "extraordinarily quiet".

 

[Sascha Franck]

@Sascha Franck Could something in your setup be making it incredibly quiet? Looking at this second waveform and thinking it took 30db to get here is pretty "extraordinarily quiet".

There's nothing special happening here, I've just been using a pretty overdriven patch and turned the volume pot way down to clean it up. Which I usually only do live because I'm aware it will at least cause me "waveform visibility issues" when recording. So, the actual quietness of the audiofile isn't the problem here - and fwiw, I only recorded it as is because I was just having an idea that I wanted to work with.

Still, Logic should simply be able to deal with it on a technical level. Which it apparently isn't. And in fact, I find this to be spectacularly bad. I mean, it's not as if DAWs would be like "sorry, I'm already soo old so I can't see and listen to waveforms with that little energy any longer!"
When you think about it closer, this is absolutely horrible. I mean, what about you doing a very dynamic recording and later on decide you'd wanr to grab one of the quiet passages to deal with them separately? With Logic, you just can't because the damn thing is almost completely ignoring it.
Completely inacceptable.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Fwiw, this seems to be a somewhat new bug in Logic. I crosschecked the file on my old Mac Pro and it's all fine there.
It's telling you volumes about QA in Apple land, though. I mean, this bug is there in at least 10.8.1, 11 and 11.0.1 (and not in 10.5.1, can't check anything inbetween). Bah.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

How to use an amp simulator with an audio interface

Turns out we may have all been using our amp simulator plugins completely wrong. Let's clear up the matter once and for all

www.musicradar.com

so close and then that sentence about pickups

 

[dronerstone]

How to use an amp simulator with an audio interface

Turns out we may have all been using our amp simulator plugins completely wrong. Let's clear up the matter once and for all

www.musicradar.com

so close and then that sentence about pickups

Also "listen with your ears", yet before that using the numbers table as clickbait for the video...

I'd rather listen with my calculator and then let my ears confirm if the levels are correct, tbh.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I'd rather listen with my calculator and then let my ears confirm if the levels are correct, tbh.

I think that's "countercreative".
I stumbled over some NAM profiles that I'm sure are meant to see a different input level - but they're kickass the way they got to my ears. Possibly wouldn't have tried them in case I'd grabbed any calculator first.

 

[dronerstone]

I think that's "countercreative".
I stumbled over some NAM profiles that I'm sure are meant to see a different input level - but they're kickass the way they got to my ears. Possibly wouldn't have tried them in case I'd grabbed any calculator first.

There are no rules, always remember that.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I stumbled over some NAM profiles that I'm sure are meant to see a different input level

you would only know for sure if you are using way more or way less gain by actually knowing it’s original level. Some people could be driving a profile +20dB thinking they’re slamming it into next week and really they are still below unity gain. I think the overall margins are much wider than people realise for this stuff.

 

[Sascha Franck]

you would only know for sure if you are using way more or way less gain by actually knowing it’s original level.

I'm perfectly aware of all that. But as the desired input levels are all over the place between captures, I simply decided to not care anymore.
I take a lot of care leveling HX Native properly, simply because I'm also using the hardware and want to be compatible (which is just great), for the entire rest I don't give a scientific damn anmore but just let my ears decide. Could I miss a capture that would otherwise perhaps sound killer? For sure. But I couldn't care less because I'm sooo well sorted in terms of guitar sound variety, it's almost beyond belief.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I'm perfectly aware of all that. But as the desired input levels are all over the place between captures, I simply decided to not care anymore.
I take a lot of care leveling HX Native properly, simply because I'm also using the hardware and want to be compatible (which is just great), for the entire rest I don't give a scientific damn anmore but just let my ears decide. Could I miss a capture that would otherwise perhaps sound killer? For sure. But I couldn't care less because I'm sooo well sorted in terms of guitar sound variety, it's almost beyond belief.

This is one of those things where it’s absolutely fine for people to work like this, but if for was the only way for everyone there is a ton of unnecessary sifting through models, many of which are likely similar besides gain (until you adjust). So you end up with more redundant models, more scrolling, more time experimenting just to find a “sweet spot”, more doubts, less fun.

The benefit of knowing is you can choose to ignore, if you don’t know then that’s your only option. If a plugin came without a manual, people could probably get by just fine for most situations. But it’s just much better to have a manual there to consult too.