Calibrating Input Level for Plugins

[MirrorProfiles]

My understanding is, since it is hardware, it makes the most sense to leave it where it is, and adjust to taste as needed.

Input level standardization makes sense in the context of audio interfaces, since the way they are set up varies wildly. Each one uses different values and such.

However, the Tonex pedals are all the same. Therefore there is no reason to adjust it really. It's like plugging different guitars into the same amp. Of course a single coil guitar won't drive the amp as hard.

The difference is you can turn up the input gain and make the single coils drive it harder if you want to. But it's not necessary.

If you really want to be accurate, best you can do is listen to YouTube videos of the captures, and play with the input gain until the tone sounds similar. But then it might be off for other captures.

I say leave it where it is and sleep soundly at night

I think Nathan has already made models and wants to know what level to set the pedal to match his interface level. Its much better to know, so you can adjust it once and then have all your presets behave the same on the pedal as they do when using an interface.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I apologize for the stupid question, but I own the Audient iD22 and a 3 Neural DSP plugins. are the input values indicated on the excel spreadsheet should be dialed into the plugins or on the physical device ?

set your audient to minimum and adjust the level in the plugin input parameter to the value in the spreadsheet

 

[[Nathan]]

I think Nathan has already made models and wants to know what level to set the pedal to match his interface level. Its much better to know, so you can adjust it once and then have all your presets behave the same on the pedal as they do when using an interface.

Basically this, to see if using their hardware input spec yields better capture results.

 

[efsenable]

Does anyone know the input volume for the Audient iD22 + positive bias FX2 \ amplitube 5, please ?

Any idea why my sound https://on.soundcloud.com/HnRsp51jSv6GoxHH6 is horrible compared to his

Also, Any idea why my right output volume is higher than the left:

P.S - Please don't mind my playing - I'm a below-below beginner at best.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Does anyone know the input volume for the Audient iD22 + positive bias FX2 \ amplitube 5, please ?

Any idea why my sound https://on.soundcloud.com/HnRsp51jSv6GoxHH6 is horrible compared to his

Also, Any idea why my right output volume is higher than the left:
View attachment 23602

P.S - Please don't mind my playing - I'm a below-below beginner at best.

For IK=if only they would co-operate. You can ask their support or @IK Multimedia directly but don’t expect an actual answer.

No idea for positive grid either.

 

[abhijit_singh]

Greetings everyone! It's my first post here.
I want to thank everyone involved in educating and helping us understand how it all works under the hood.
Learnt a lot!

That said .. I am sort of done with Amp Sims.
I own IKM TotalStudioMax, and Amplitube has been the weakest sounding plugin, imo.
I fail to understand claims such as "Most realistic Amp Simulations" when their High Gain Amps sound nothing like High Gain.
Thanks to Matthias and his post called "Ultimate AT5 Gain List", I figured some Amps need more than +15db boost after boosting +10.79db for my Audio Interface !!!!!
And then, every amp has it's own input gain.
Now who would have figured this out. Hasn't IK used their own software?

Apart from all this, just tired with this whole Amp Sim market.
Really leaning towards getting a Real Amp, Real pedals/MultiFX and that's gonna be my sound so that I can focus on making music for a change.
Apologies for the rant.
Again, thanks for this amazing thread!

 

[TheTrueZoltan!]

Greetings everyone! It's my first post here.
I want to thank everyone involved in educating and helping us understand how it all works under the hood.
Learnt a lot!

That said .. I am sort of done with Amp Sims.
I own IKM TotalStudioMax, and Amplitube has been the weakest sounding plugin, imo.
I fail to understand claims such as "Most realistic Amp Simulations" when their High Gain Amps sound nothing like High Gain.
Thanks to Matthias and his post called "Ultimate AT5 Gain List", I figured some Amps need more than +15db boost after boosting +10.79db for my Audio Interface !!!!!
And then, every amp has it's own input gain.
Now who would have figured this out. Hasn't IK used their own software?

Apart from all this, just tired with this whole Amp Sim market.
Really leaning towards getting a Real Amp, Real pedals/MultiFX and that's gonna be my sound so that I can focus on making music for a change.
Apologies for the rant.
Again, thanks for this amazing thread!

Welcome!

Dill or sweet pickles?

 

[[Nathan]]

Greetings everyone! It's my first post here.
I want to thank everyone involved in educating and helping us understand how it all works under the hood.
Learnt a lot!

That said .. I am sort of done with Amp Sims.
I own IKM TotalStudioMax, and Amplitube has been the weakest sounding plugin, imo.
I fail to understand claims such as "Most realistic Amp Simulations" when their High Gain Amps sound nothing like High Gain.
Thanks to Matthias and his post called "Ultimate AT5 Gain List", I figured some Amps need more than +15db boost after boosting +10.79db for my Audio Interface !!!!!
And then, every amp has it's own input gain.
Now who would have figured this out. Hasn't IK used their own software?

Apart from all this, just tired with this whole Amp Sim market.
Really leaning towards getting a Real Amp, Real pedals/MultiFX and that's gonna be my sound so that I can focus on making music for a change.
Apologies for the rant.
Again, thanks for this amazing thread!

You're going through the stages of guitar amp acceptance

- Gets amp sims but things dont sound "right", need the real gear
- Gets real amps/loadboxes and realise how the things actually work
- Goes down to modellers where things sound shockingly close
- Goes back to amp sims and also realise how close it really was the whole time, rip

I have to say, trial something like NeuralDSP Nameless and see how much better that is out of the box than flipping a coin at +15/+20gb gain on Amplitube amps. Amps are cool but come with their own set of things to manage (cost, extra gear, maintenance, physical space, 1:1 tracking time). Your solution for just making music might just be a better amp sim.... heck grab the free Audio Assault Demios Amp, ML Roots or Ignite Emissary, those will be better on defaults for high gain.

 

[abhijit_singh]

Welcome!

Dill or sweet pickles?

This!
The secret of my HiGeinToan.
Everything calibrates itself!

 

[abhijit_singh]

You're going through the stages of guitar amp acceptance

- Gets amp sims but things dont sound "right", need the real gear
- Gets real amps/loadboxes and realise how the things actually work
- Goes down to modellers where things sound shockingly close
- Goes back to amp sims and also realise how close it really was the whole time, rip

I have to say, trial something like NeuralDSP Nameless and see how much better that is out of the box than flipping a coin at +15/+20gb gain on Amplitube amps. Amps are cool but come with their own set of things to manage (cost, extra gear, maintenance, physical space, 1:1 tracking time). Your solution for just making music might just be a better amp sim.... heck grab the free Audio Assault Demios Amp, ML Roots or Ignite Emissary, those will be better on defaults for high gain.

All facts there Nathan!

I've been thinking about getting NDSP.
Already have Otto II II II II, STL Tonality JM, Aurora DSP Ironheart, Kuassa Effektor Series.
Really like all.

You're right when you say I am yet to realise "how close it really was the whole time".
Yet to purchase my first real amp.
Been thinking about getting an SS Orange SuperCrush 100 and some pedals and out to an "FRFR" setup.
Eyeing the new Soldano Astro! But those get really expensive in regards to PPP and extra taxes here.

I really like Amplitube because its an all in one ecosystem for Amps and Effects, just the amps can be wonky, but my rant apart I can make it sound good enough in a mix.
Just that the playing experience I feel with amp sims hasn't been as motivating.
The good ones I feel miss the variety that AT5 provides. I tried AmpHub but didn't really like it.
Maybe I should go for individual modules for both Amps and Effects.

But you're right, before all of that I maybe should invest in better monitors etc
With all these good amp sims out there maybe its PEBKAC with me hahaha

I'll search for recommended Amp Sims here and give them a nice try!
Really appreciate the experienced advice!

 

[TheTrueZoltan!]

@abhijit_singh If you want an all-in-one ecosystem plugin like Amplitube (but better) you can't go wrong with Line 6 Helix Native.

 

[abhijit_singh]

Aaah yeah I've been reading good things about Helix Native here, minus the UI, but I don't really mind.
I'll give it a try.

Btw, I tried searching for the correct input gain for Otto Audio II II II II but couldn't find that information anywhere.
Any clues about this one fam? I really like it!

 

[ivanmancic]

The UI in Helix is actually brilliant, even if it's not visually as inspiring as looking at images of real amps.
I tried everything, and finally settled on Native, as it's the most intuitive plugin (or sim) out there that gets least in the way of me actually playing the guitar. Plus, it sounds as good as anything else (minus a few percent compared to Fractal which it more than makes up for in UI).

 

[[Nathan]]

I've been thinking about getting NDSP.
Already have Otto II II II II, STL Tonality JM

JM rules, would be my daily driver out of the stuff you listed
Otto is also awesome, would be something I reach for if I went a bit lower like Drop G, but also great in general.
NDSP Nameless just does something I haven't been able to get out of other amp sims, basically a great marshall metal sound with 0 effort.

Helix Native would be an awesome addition... its definitely the kind of thing that if you were an absolute Helix weapon you'd be able to get any tone out of it (especially with 3rd party IRs). I'd say Nameless or Helix would be a great addition and if im honest, Helix definitely has a lot more mileage with all the effects and end to end ecosystem you get out of it. I picked it up a month ago and haven't given it nearly enough time but I need to.

Real stuff obviously rules but you'd be surprised once all is said and done how similar it is... and its an expensive exercise to learn first hand

 

[Elric]

I have to say, trial something like NeuralDSP Nameless and see how much better that is out of the box than flipping a coin at +15/+20gb gain on Amplitube amps. Amps are cool but come with their own set of things to manage (cost, extra gear, maintenance, physical space, 1:1 tracking time). Your solution for just making music might just be a better amp sim.... heck grab the free Audio Assault Demios Amp, ML Roots or Ignite Emissary, those will be better on defaults for high gain.

Agree. @IK Multimedia stuff is the absolute worst case of any vendor for getting levels sorted/consistent across amps/models, etc. If you are not willing to mess with levels/etc on a per preset basis, you are better off with literally anything else.

 

[Sascha Franck]

The UI in Helix is actually brilliant,

I think the Helix Native UI is rather bad in quite some aspects. But each to their own.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I think the Helix Native UI is rather bad in quite some aspects. But each to their own.

IMO for what Helix is trying to achieve its BY FAR the best in its class. The alternatives end up like Amplitube or S-Gear or Revalver that are pretty horrible to use by comparison. I like that Helix is fast and intuitive and there is minimal unnecessary clutter. Unfortunately they made a mess of the Metallurgy GUI's, when all they really had to do was copy Neural DSP's example. Its a bit too "not one thing nor the other" and misses the mark on what that plugin should be. Sadly they seem to have gone the way of abandonware

 

[Sascha Franck]

The alternatives end up like Amplitube or S-Gear or Revalver that are pretty horrible to use by comparison.

Honestly, I couldn't tell you a better interface as S-Gear. It's just brilliant - simply because you can see *all* relevant parameters of a patch at once whereas adjusting parameters of different blocks is turning into a massive clickfest with HXN (and obviously Amplitube, at least for the most part, too), let alone the incredibly bad "sweet" spot when it switches between scrolling and parameter adjustment.
Now, quite obviously, HXN is *way* more complexed, but unlike on the hardware, you often don't need all that complexity as things such as using snapshots (let alone stomps, which is just pretty much impossible) aren't designed to be used within the plugin.
I could think of some possibly easy to realize things which would improve the situation, but apparently all things UI are cast in stone in HX land.

Fwiw, almost forgot about it: regarding the UI, Guitar Rig is possibly the best (even if NI sucks as much as it gets as a company). You can create incredibly complexed patches, too (in fact, possibly more complexed than with HXN) but you can as well collapse things you don't need and expand those you want to adjust, so all relevant parameters might be visible simultaneously.

I mean, while I could still think of a lot of improvements, regarding quick editing, there's absolutely *no* way HXN could even remotely compete with this:

All parameters of a sort of typical patch at a glance. Scrollwheel support works as expected, too. Just excellent.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Honestly, I couldn't tell you a better interface as S-Gear. It's just brilliant - simply because you can see *all* relevant parameters of a patch at once whereas adjusting parameters of different blocks is turning into a massive clickfest with HXN (and obviously Amplitube, at least for the most part, too), let alone the incredibly bad "sweet" spot when it switches between scrolling and parameter adjustment.
Now, quite obviously, HXN is *way* more complexed, but unlike on the hardware, you often don't need all that complexity as things such as using snapshots (let alone stomps, which is just pretty much impossible) aren't designed to be used within the plugin.
I could think of some possibly easy to realize things which would improve the situation, but apparently all things UI are cast in stone in HX land.

Fwiw, almost forgot about it: regarding the UI, Guitar Rig is possibly the best (even if NI sucks as much as it gets as a company). You can create incredibly complexed patches, too (in fact, possibly more complexed than with HXN) but you can as well collapse things you don't need and expand those you want to adjust, so all relevant parameters might be visible simultaneously.

I mean, while I could still think of a lot of improvements, regarding quick editing, there's absolutely *no* way HXN could even remotely compete with this:

View attachment 23742

All parameters of a sort of typical patch at a glance. Scrollwheel support works as expected, too. Just excellent.

How useful is it to see all parameters at once? 95% of stuff I’m not going back and tweaking and I’d rather have less stuff in the way of the thing I do want to focus on.

On UI’s like this, the price you pay is more scrolling, smaller text, smaller knobs to click, more looking around in random places to find what you need. I also find them more of a pain to change fx types - they’re usually drag and drop and they always just seem somewhat jerky.

At any one point I can only really adjust one knob at a time anyway, so all it does is make the haystack bigger. Its also more limited as far as signal path and how easy it is to see what’s going on there.

It’s actually something that I like about Logic and Pro Tools GUI’s, and dislike about Reaper and Luna - Logic and Pro Tools have a good amount of contextual behaviour. Often you can just see what’s important on the screen, rather than having everything dumped in front of you and forcing you to figure it out.

 

[dronerstone]

Honestly, I couldn't tell you a better interface as S-Gear. It's just brilliant - simply because you can see *all* relevant parameters of a patch at once whereas adjusting parameters of different blocks is turning into a massive clickfest with HXN (and obviously Amplitube, at least for the most part, too), let alone the incredibly bad "sweet" spot when it switches between scrolling and parameter adjustment.
Now, quite obviously, HXN is *way* more complexed, but unlike on the hardware, you often don't need all that complexity as things such as using snapshots (let alone stomps, which is just pretty much impossible) aren't designed to be used within the plugin.
I could think of some possibly easy to realize things which would improve the situation, but apparently all things UI are cast in stone in HX land.

Fwiw, almost forgot about it: regarding the UI, Guitar Rig is possibly the best (even if NI sucks as much as it gets as a company). You can create incredibly complexed patches, too (in fact, possibly more complexed than with HXN) but you can as well collapse things you don't need and expand those you want to adjust, so all relevant parameters might be visible simultaneously.

I mean, while I could still think of a lot of improvements, regarding quick editing, there's absolutely *no* way HXN could even remotely compete with this:

View attachment 23742

All parameters of a sort of typical patch at a glance. Scrollwheel support works as expected, too. Just excellent.

Matter of taste.

That GUI reminds me a lot of GuitarRig.

What year is this?