Isn't that the same as with Helix hardware? Helix hardware has an input pad of 5 db. The headroom results than in 16,5 contrary to the excellsheet of 11,5. Audient 4mk2 starts also with -5 on minimum gain. But perhaps I just understand things wrong.
Calibrating Input Level for Plugins
- Thread starter James Freeman
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MirrorProfiles
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ohh I missed the -5dB gain. Yeah that makes sense then.
Thanks! I don't understand why they missed that in the MKII specs, but that solves the mistery.
MirrorProfiles
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different A/D converters?
Would that explain the different dBFS reading compared to the Focusrite? If both of their headroom is 12 dBu, shouldn't the readings be the same when fed with 0.5 Vrms at minimum/zero gain?
MirrorProfiles
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It would give different dBFS levels, but the values above are kind of in the other direction
I was talking about an Audient ID4mk2 vs ID4mk1. Not the ID14.
storming heaven
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Dude... DUDE!!!!
I have the same interface and I hadn't put too much thought into the need for measuring the input cause hey, we already have the value in the manual right?
I had already transitioned from 'turn it up until it's clipping...' to 'put it in zero and trust the given values' but still something wasn't sounding right to my ears when using amp sims (Helix Native, Neural DSP, NAM etc.)
I finally had a chance to try the measurement with a voltmeter (though an old one); lo and behold! The level after measurement for my Audient Evo4 is a whooping 14.6 dBu! The manual states that it's actually 10 dBu... I don't know why it differs so much; maybe there is something wrong with my unit. But they really fudged it up by putting the wrong number in the manual, since Sedaxel had a different value as well.
@MirrorProfiles thank you very much again (and of course, @James Freeman) for keeping this thread going and helping people. Maybe the value for the Audient Evo4 needs to be updated in the Google Sheets table. I don't trust the voltmeter I used that much and if @Sedaxel found the same value twice, I think that should be the norm value for this unit.
And after trying the value Sedaxel gave, playing with 16.2 really opens up the amp sims now. Btw that value is also the same as Audient ID22, I wonder if they mixed it up in the manual-writing stage... Now I have to try all those presets and NAM profiles again with the correct measurement.
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Yeah mate. This gain thing is a night and day difference.
I'm quite sure about the value of my unit because I measured both with Tonocracy tool and the DAW-sine wave method with a brand new multimeter... And the result was exactly the same. I'm glad you found it useful!
MirrorProfiles
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I hadn’t noticed Ghost Note Audio have made a signal generator that’ll output a +4dBu sine wave that you can measure your DI input levels with.
ghostnoteaudio.uk
IMO it’s better to buy a reamp box and multimeter and output a sine wave from your DAW, but I think for some people it’s a bit more straightforward to have a known voltage sine wave ready to go.
Signal Generator
A calibrated reference signal generator, producing a 1Khz sine wave with low distortion and noise. Alternatively, it can output a white noise signal, useful for measuring frequency response of systems such as equalisers and filters, as well as being used in the process of making speaker IRs...
ghostnoteaudio.uk
IMO it’s better to buy a reamp box and multimeter and output a sine wave from your DAW, but I think for some people it’s a bit more straightforward to have a known voltage sine wave ready to go.
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ChordInversion
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Just seeing this thread and thinking "It's been years now, and IK Multimedia cares so little that so far as I now, they've never posted so much as a single doc on their website or a forum about their gain staging issues and how to work around them - never mind made even a mild effort to fix them."
Nobody maintains as high of a profile while caring so incredibly little.
Nobody maintains as high of a profile while caring so incredibly little.
Dom Mcsweeney
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Just noticed this too @MirrorProfiles =)
ghostnoteaudio.uk
Amp Simulation Input Gain
Designing and building hardware and software for musicians and audio professionals
ghostnoteaudio.uk
MirrorProfiles
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Ha very nicely done! Although the Mercuriall values it gives there won’t be correct as Ampbox uses a 1-10 knob rather than dB. Things like Amplitube that don’t use a consistent level maybe shouldn’t be there either….Just noticed this too @MirrorProfiles =)
Amp Simulation Input Gain
Designing and building hardware and software for musicians and audio professionals
Dom Mcsweeney
Roadie
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Ah good spot. I've just forwarded this over to Valdemar. I guess he can either remove or add some extra details/notes into it or something.
AlbertA
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Indeed - https://thegearforum.com/threads/some-nam-profiles-for-yall.6488/page-4#post-393618Just noticed this too @MirrorProfiles =)
Amp Simulation Input Gain
Designing and building hardware and software for musicians and audio professionals
Sascha Franck
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Just noticed this too @MirrorProfiles =)
Amp Simulation Input Gain
Designing and building hardware and software for musicians and audio professionals
That's quite nice and very useful.
Anyhow, as I just got my Tonex pedal, I was comparing some captures. And their required input levels seem to indeed be all over the place. Some of them defenitely require way higher or way lower levels than the 0dB the pedal is sitting at right now (and where I plan to keep it as it's fine with all my guitars). Obviously, you can adjust things via the amp gain knob, but it's defenitely nothing reproducable.
And of course, it's the very same with the plugins - and even more so with Amplitube. So yeah, for those two, the values are "maybe it works" hints. Something IK should really adress. Just that they won't, given their huge back catalog...
Sascha Franck
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Fwiw, I was just comparing the Tonex One and plugin, using a Motu M2, the 16dB boost seems to be very accurate to get to the same input gain as with the pedal (pedal input gain set to 0dB).
Same goes for the 4.8dB listed for HX Native (which I compared to the HX Stomp).
Now, the only really problematic thing will be mixing and matching plugins serially (in case you want to go for that).
Anyhow, many thanks to anyone involved, mainly @MirrorProfiles. This is really useful and reducing setup time in many cases.
Same goes for the 4.8dB listed for HX Native (which I compared to the HX Stomp).
Now, the only really problematic thing will be mixing and matching plugins serially (in case you want to go for that).
Anyhow, many thanks to anyone involved, mainly @MirrorProfiles. This is really useful and reducing setup time in many cases.
Just noticed this too @MirrorProfiles =)
Amp Simulation Input Gain
Designing and building hardware and software for musicians and audio professionals
For owners of the RME UFX III interface: the Maximum Input Level is 21 dBu, and the interface has a +8dB minimum gain.
- From my previous calculation using the Excel, the gain in TotalMix for NDSP was set at +17.0dB.
- In the tool above, it says to set the Input Gain Adjustment at +8.8dB. But this is on top of the minimum gain, right ? So you need to add 8.8 to 8 for a total of 16.8dB in TotalMix, correct ? (TotalMix only allows integer, so the closest is 17dB.) This sounds fine, no clipping.
Following the same logic (if correct), the tool above mentions +21dBu for TONEX, so in TotalMix that would be +29dB of gain ?!? That clips the hell out of the RME input and of course TONEX. Something is weird here.
Anyone knows what the Gain Adjustment should be for Amalgam Audio TONEX captures?
2dor
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Just interjecting on the TotalMix thing: TotalMix allows / processes non-integer increments but for some weird reason only displays interger values.
