Calibrating Input Level for Plugins

[ChordInversion]

Agree. @IK Multimedia stuff is the absolute worst case of any vendor for getting levels sorted/consistent across amps/models, etc. If you are not willing to mess with levels/etc on a per preset basis, you are better off with literally anything else.

100%. It's an utter trash fire, and @IK Multimedia would rather their product be bad than so much as engage in a conversation about what's obviously wrong with it.

 

[Frankencat]

After doing some calibration based on this thread I finally got Helix Native sounding good. I had some presets saved from the hardware when I had a floor and a Stomp but I could never get it to sound good on Native. Now I know why. Thanks!

 

[Frankencat]

I did the SOTP calibration with the Tonex app and pedal a few weeks back because of the same issue - the app and the pedal did not sound the same. I got them very close adjusting by ear but now I have a solid process. It does seem that the captures are all over the place in this regard but I stick to 3 or 4 along with my own and they seem to be ok with where I have it set. Thanks again!

 

[DLC86]

Today's NAM trainer update adds metadata for dBu reamp levels and these will likely be used in the plugin as well to automatically compensate.

Trainer version 0.10.0 is released

I've released a new version of the Python package for training models!As usual, the newest version is automatically used in the online trainer; folks making models locally on their own computers can install the update by typingpip install --upgrade neural-amp-modelerFull release notes are...

www.neuralampmodeler.com

 

[MirrorProfiles]

UAD's new amp sim manuals, very first section:

Setting input levels​

Lion '68 is calibrated to provide the exact same tone and response as the original amp when used with Apollo and Volt interfaces. Simply connect your instrument to a Hi-Z input, set the channel's preamp gain to minimum, and leave the plug-in’s IN control at its default Hi-Z (center) position.


For optimum performance with other audio interfaces, follow the same guidelines.

Good to see they are watching and paying attention. They should use actual numbers though, and not assume all other interfaces are 12dBu of headroom

https://help.uaudio.com/hc/en-us/articles/30847259997972-Lion-68-Super-Lead-Amp-Manual

 

[James Freeman]

Good, our persistence is bearing fruit.
The smart and experienced ones are getting on board first and the rest soon shall follow.
Claiming accuracy with random input gain must be the biggest conundrum in guitar history.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Good, our persistence is bearing fruit.
The smart and experienced ones are getting on board first and the rest soon shall follow.
Claiming accuracy with random input gain must be the biggest conundrum in guitar history.

Good to see it being discussed and supported by industry leaders like UA, as well as open source NAM. Users expecting and appreciating this stuff across the board, down to your hard work and enthusiasm.

IK have a strong history of copying UAD, let’s hope they’re up next

 

[Sedaxel]

Good to see they are watching and paying attention.

I think this is still a very unknown factor for the majority of digital effects users. Hell, Leo Gibson still doesn't know what is this, for instance.

A long way to go in order to have all the industry (and the community) making things right, I'm afraid.

 

[[Nathan]]

Seeing NAM taking steps to figuring it out and also how casual and normal the wording in the UAD manual is, speaks volumes in my books.

No chance any of this stuff caught traction without all of your collective “passionate” persistence on the topic

And for all those who oddly think it doesn’t matter, see how easy and seamless it is. Should really be a simple discussion but the resistance is what causes friction… FIGURE IT OUT AlREADY (it’s being figured out)

 

[Sascha Franck]

Fwiw, I need to do something about my situation. Level-wise, I'm absolutely fine with my Motu M2's input turned all the way down, have matched my HXN channel strip so sounds are the same as on the hardware, etc. But visually, it more often than not turns into a nightmare. Yes, we could now argue about Logic's miserable waveform display until the cows come home, but once I'm dialing down my guitar volume (which I often do) the level is so low it'd likely be an issue with pretty much any host.
Now, to match the HX hardware, I need to insert a +5.2dB gain plugin anyway, so I could as well add just that on the Motus input. But uhm, there's no digital readout of the input gain, so I'm pretty much lost. Could add a marker, but it's not exactly exact... but maybe that's what I'll end up doing.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Fwiw, I need to do something about my situation. Level-wise, I'm absolutely fine with my Motu M2's input turned all the way down, have matched my HXN channel strip so sounds are the same as on the hardware, etc. But visually, it more often than not turns into a nightmare. Yes, we could now argue about Logic's miserable waveform display until the cows come home, but once I'm dialing down my guitar volume (which I often do) the level is so low it'd likely be an issue with pretty much any host.
Now, to match the HX hardware, I need to insert a +5.2dB gain plugin anyway, so I could as well add just that on the Motus input. But uhm, there's no digital readout of the input gain, so I'm pretty much lost. Could add a marker, but it's not exactly exact... but maybe that's what I'll end up doing.

run a sine wave into the motu input, look at the dBFS level. Turn it up so it reads 5.2dBFS louder. Leave it alone. Done.

 

[Sascha Franck]

run a sine wave into the motu input, look at the dBFS level. Turn it up so it reads 5.2dBFS louder. Leave it alone. Done.

Did that already, but as I use it for my mobile needs, the pot gets touched quite a bit (let alone I need the input for other signals, too).

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Did that already, but as I use it for my mobile needs, the pot gets touched quite a bit (let alone I need the input for other signals, too).

then you can either clip gain after each take, record through an aux that is boosting 5.2dB of gain (probably the easiest solution) or use another DAW.

 

[Sascha Franck]

record through an aux that is boosting 5.2dB of gain

I was actually considering exactly that. It's just that I would likely forget about it and then run into some clipping when recording something else.

 

[pipelineaudio]

Isnt there some sort of meter plugin he could put on?

 

[valimaki]

I have a Focusrite Clarett 4Pre USB, specs say Maximum input level +14 dBu at minimum gain if I run a 1Vp@1Khz sine signal through the input (measured using an osciloscope 2Vpp = 1Vp = 0.707Vrms) I need to raise the gain in my DAW by 17.4db to reach 0dBFS. I see some people doing some calculations based only in the maximum input level spec of their instrument inputs, can anyone explain what's going on here? because I wasn't expecting 17.4db at all after reading some of the content in the thread

I generated the signal using Operator in Ableton and I am rasing the gain level using Utility (in case it's relevant)

I am trying to calibrate my input for 1Vp = 0dBFS and then adjust the gain depending on the plugin from there if needed.

 

[TheTrueZoltan!]

I just received (what feels like) my 131st FM3 and measured the DI signal. I have connected it to my audio interface via S/PDIF and have to attenuate the output by exactly 12.1 dB to match Helix level.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

A good video just demonstrating an aspect that gets a little overlooked. As with many things audio, so much gets repeated online by people without really understanding why (I think this video addresses some of those things that get repeated).

I purposefully avoided too much focus on optimizing SNR, because that would mean most people would have to manually measure their interface, and most guitarists simply aren't going to do that. Even experienced engineers I know get frightened at the sight of a multimeter. So, given the most popular interfaces out there have a reasonably sufficient amount of headroom AND SNR at minimum gain settings, its an easy starting point for accurate calibration.



Anyway, I think the points are well made and should help those who want to understand the topic in a little more detail.

 

[2dor]

A good video just demonstrating an aspect that gets a little overlooked. As with many things audio, so much gets repeated online by people without really understanding why.

I purposefully avoided too much focus on optimizing SNR, because that would mean most people would have to manually measure their interface, and most guitarists simply aren't going to do that. Even experienced engineers I know get frightened at the sight of a multimeter. So, given the most popular interfaces out there have a reasonably sufficient amount of headroom AND SNR at minimum gain settings, its an easy starting point for accurate calibration.



Anyway, I think the points are well made and should help those who want to understand the topic in a little more detail.

I think that's a very good point he brings up (SNR) and it's probably the next step in the right direction.

However, there's a very big pragmatic problem in the way his point was relayed: people need a simple way of getting this done. There are a lot more chances for screwing things up with the new approach (which I understand and is a very valid PoV) than by just setting the input gain at min. & tweaking in the digital space.

Anyway, the message is great & I think is the evolution on what's been built in the past year in this space; it's just that the message delivery is a bit douchy / "mine is bigger than yours".

Good watch - thanks for sharing!

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I think that's a very good point he brings up (SNR) and it's probably the next step in the right direction.

However, there's a very big pragmatic problem in the way his point was relayed: people need a simple way of getting this done. There are a lot more chances for screwing things up with the new approach (which I understand and is a very valid PoV) than by just setting the input gain at min. & tweaking in the digital space.

Anyway, the message is great & I think is the evolution on what's been built in the past year in this space; it's just that the message delivery is a bit douchy / "mine is bigger than yours".

Good watch - thanks for sharing!

Absolutely. I purposefully kept it generalised to make it more accessible and easy "for the masses". Optimising SNR is for sure a better way to go, but if people discover they have to do some work to achieve it, then no one would bother. And for a lot of people, they're already recording sufficiently above the noise floor.

Really you want to satisfy both - If noise is presenting an issue, then it would be crazy not to increase the gain. If the noise is sufficiently below the background noise of the pickups, then the next step would be finding the easiest way to achieve a known input headroom. Many interfaces are designed to be pretty optimal at 0 gain - thats why Rabbea said "why would you add more gain?". Humbuckers on a 12dBu input basically have no room to add more level without clipping, so in those cases all you need to do is calibrate. The Behringer is quite an outlier (and was used in the video to prove the point) because its VERY noisy, and also produces a weak signal at 0 gain.

I'm a bit concerned that some dumbasses will selectively reference the clickbait aspects of the video, and ignore the good advice on calibrating and optimising SNR. The video is totally correct, but people are going to selectively draw their own narrative from it.