Bad sound guys: The bane of digital guitarists

[deathbyguitar]

To parrot what others have said about the X-Air stuff, I have an XR12 (well actually MR12 but they're almost identical) and use it for IEMs with my Fractal. If you don't need a trillion inputs or a bunch of individual IEM mixes it's a pretty good solution. You can create 4 different mono mixes or two stereo ones out of it if you tell the headphone out monitor Bus 3+4 instead of the main mix. I'm probably mis-remembering some of that...just know that the XR12 has additional output routing options than meets the eye

 

[metropolis_4]

To be fair, how many people have you met who actively sought to become a sound tech? It seems like the majority of people that I’ve met who do sound are musicians who got roped into it as a side thing.

True, but it depends on the level of the venue. The people who do actively seek to become a sound tech tend to be better at it and tend to get better jobs.

The best sound tech I know is a guy who isn’t a musician at all but has had a passion for mixing sound since he was a kid. He works in the big venues in the casinos in Vegas

 

[spawnofthesith]

My personal experiences with sound guys have been overwhelmingly positive

Not talking about the OP or his specific situation here, but generally speaking when I see guitarists whining about sound guys on forums, I tend to give the sound guy the benefit of the doubt

 

[likitlikeyoulikeit]

My personal experiences with sound guys have been overwhelmingly positive

Not talking about the OP or his specific situation here, but generally speaking when I see guitarists whining about sound guys on forums, I tend to give the sound guy the benefit of the doubt

100%, but I have also seen sound persons, maybe grumpy from dealing with nit picky band members, purposefully mess with them by Fing with levels and eq....on a monitor Or FOH....just because.

 

[spawnofthesith]

100%, but I have also seen sound persons, maybe grumpy from dealing with nit picky band members, purposefully mess with them by Fing with levels and eq....on a monitor Or FOH....just because.

I try and always buddy up to the sound guy. Never hurts to offer them a drink, weed, mushrooms, etc...

 

[likitlikeyoulikeit]

I try and always buddy up to the sound guy. Never hurts to offer them a drink, weed, mushrooms, etc...

One place I worked at, and eventually did sound for....the sound guy was narcoleptic and would fall asleep ALL the time, and it was horrible. But that was many lifetimes ago ...seen all types over the years. Generally the good ones barely talk, I like those ones. I like to just watch them.

My favorite sound reinforcement guys are usually the monitor mix guy.... usually the whackiest and most fun.

 

[aflynt]

I don't get it. How is analog amp / pedals any better in this situation when you can just bring a wedge for your guitar and have the same functional equivalent?

For what it's worth, for these situations I have a little daughter pedal train nano board with a Rolls PM59, transformer isolated splitter for my vocal mic, an XVive phantom power for a condenser mic, and a little Sennheiser portable transmitter for my IEMs. It's all battery powered using a charging bank. I plug in a cable from my Fractal for my guitar signal, split my vocal mic and mount a little condenser mic to my mic stand. I just blend those three sources in my ears with the PM59 and can get through any show. I point the condenser in the general direction of whatever else I want to hear other than me.

-Aaron

 

[spawnofthesith]

People keep saying "its not any different than if you had an amp"

The difference is that the solution is "buy more stuff"

If he was using an amp he'd have at least some degree of baked in stage monitoring.....


"buy more stuff" IS different as far as I can see

 

[Sascha Franck]

Tbh…with a modeler it’s easy enough…in my case a light combo, into the return…done.

This. Just that in my case it's either my usual fullrange monitor or an even smaller old G&K vocal amp. Helps me to just lift the guitar over the rest. Only for me, too, especially the G&K has to be placed really close.
Got some plans to get an even smaller active speaker, maybe even with a battery option. We'll see.

 

[aflynt]

People keep saying "its not any different than if you had an amp"

The difference is that the solution is "buy more stuff"

If he was using an amp he'd have at least some degree of baked in stage monitoring.....


"buy more stuff" IS different as far as I can see

IDK, If you've got a digital rig, you should probably already have some means of making it louder. Monitor, power amp + speaker, etc...

-Aaron

 

[spawnofthesith]

IDK, If you've got a digital rig, you should probably already have some means of making it louder. Monitor, power amp + speaker, etc...

-Aaron

I don't necessarily disagree (that said I don't have a digital rig) but to be fair a lot of the purported benefits of modellers revolve around not needing that stuff... (easier/more portable/less stuff to transport/sound guys love me!/etc)

 

[Sascha Franck]

but to be fair a lot of the purported benefits of modellers revolve around not needing that stuff...

IMO it's much more about the ease of monitoring. Grab any fullrange monitor and call it a day.
Relying on whatever unknown venues may provide without clear instructions sent out beforhand (as in stage riders) simply isn't a good idea. So in case there's been little information and no stage riders sent, I'll bring my own monitoring in whatever form, as easy as that. Has never let me down.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Fwiw, I defenitely applaud any guys willing to invest time and what not into those matters. Just that I'm as well happy not having to deal with it.

 

[ian_dissonance]

I don't necessarily disagree (that said I don't have a digital rig) but to be fair a lot of the purported benefits of modellers revolve around not needing that stuff... (easier/more portable/less stuff to transport/sound guys love me!/etc)

Meh, it’s the same thing as not all amps are suited for a job. You gotta know the work conditions and prepare accordingly. My personal preference is that I would rather have great monitoring than fight the room/sound guy for FOH or wedges. If the room sounds like shit, everyone sounds like shit. With good monitoring at least you’ll be in tune and in time with the rest of the band.

 

[Sascha Franck]

You gotta know the work conditions and prepare accordingly.

This.
And in case that's impossible, you bring some "just in case" stuff.

 

[metropolis_4]

The personal monitor thing is a little complicated. I can’t do an IEM solution unless I also set up a mic to pick up ambient around me since not everything is mic’d.

I can’t do a personal monitor unless everyone does one because I’d blast out the other musicians.

I can’t do an amp unless everyone else is doing an amp.

Back in the old days when there wasn’t this expectation of everyone going silent direct these problems didn’t exist. Everything was great on stage and we just made the sound guy and audience deal with the sound issues

 

[Sascha Franck]

I can’t do a personal monitor unless everyone does one because I’d blast out the other musicians.

Not true from my experience. My little G&K even fits on a mic stand and I can turn it so low that only I hear it.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Thing also is, we're arguing about the tiniest minutiae ever round these parts, aka "which Twin is realer than real" and so on - just to play gigs where we can't even tell whether it's a Twin or a Recto? That, to me, doesn't make any sense. And as a result, I have always focused on proper monitoring ever since I went for modeling.

I have a little Zoom H4 that I can use to grab other instruments and some ambience while also routing my modeler into it. Super feature reduced IEM setup, still better than nothing.
The somewhat bigger solution involves a little old Behringer mixer. I can route whatever it takes into it. I also always bring some DI boxes in my utility case, so I can grab a split of the keyboards, the bass, whatever it needs.
And then there's my FR monitors. An Alto TS310 (*way* better than the 210 and also *way* better than I expected, just not the sturdiest thing on earth...) and the mentioned G&K 200MV vocal combo (which is incredibly well equipped for such tasks, just starting to fall apart...).
When going by car, everything is with me (well, just one of the FR monitors), when going by bike, train or whatever, at least the H4 get's slapped in.

The way I see it is that I simply owe it to all the efforts to finetune my DI sound.

 

[metropolis_4]

Thing also is, we're arguing about the tiniest minutiae ever round these parts, aka "which Twin is realer than real" and so on - just to play gigs where we can't even tell whether it's a Twin or a Recto? That, to me, doesn't make any sense. And as a result, I have always focused on proper monitoring ever since I went for modeling.

I have a little Zoom H4 that I can use to grab other instruments and some ambience while also routing my modeler into it. Super feature reduced IEM setup, still better than nothing.
The somewhat bigger solution involves a little old Behringer mixer. I can route whatever it takes into it. I also always bring some DI boxes in my utility case, so I can grab a split of the keyboards, the bass, whatever it needs.
And then there's my FR monitors. An Alto TS310 (*way* better than the 210 and also *way* better than I expected, just not the sturdiest thing on earth...) and the mentioned G&K 200MV vocal combo (which is incredibly well equipped for such tasks, just starting to fall apart...).
When going by car, everything is with me (well, just one of the FR monitors), when going by bike, train or whatever, at least the H4 get's slapped in.

The way I see it is that I simply owe it to all the efforts to finetune my DI sound.

This is exactly my point though. Look at how much more complicated it’s gotten and how much more equipment is needed now to try to make it work.

 

[pipelineaudio]

Some have said “this isn’t a digital issue” but they are missing the posited statement quoted. The complaint isn’t with digital equipment, just that it doesn’t work well without proper monitoring when going direct.

What are we missing? The same thing would happen with analog.

Analog doesn't mean "speaker"