Global features on modelers suck

[laxu]

Global features on all modelers - regardless of brand - kinda suck, don't they?

• Global EQs:
  • There's often only one instead of e.g EQ presets you can define and toggle between. Studio monitor EQ, headphone EQ, live gig EQ...
  • It's always buried several menus deep so it's not quick to access.
  • It's often way more complicated than you need, e.g a full parametric or graphic EQ, when all you want is "something that can tweak the lows/mids/highs a bit" that could be a simple 3-knob EQ like you find on e.g some full range powered speakers.
• Functions that apply to all presets:
  • Global blocks don't even exist on most modelers so you could use e.g the same amp/cab settings across preset changes.
  • Global functions can be weirdly complicated like e.g Fractal's per-channel scene ignore when most just wanted "keep this block the same across presets".
  • Turning on/off cab sims is often buried, and often not flexible enough (e.g use cab sims on output 1 and not on output 2).
• Global parameter control:
  • MIDI mapping is limited, non-existent or preset specific.
  • MIDI mapping can get discarded if you change models within the same preset.
  • MIDI mapping can't be quickly turned on/off but requires removing the assignments one by one.
  • No global mapping features where you could e.g hook up a MIDI controller, assign its knobs to your amp params and have amp controls across all your presets, whether those have an amp block or not.
• Level control:
  • Many modelers don't have a single place to monitor and adjust all levels in/out of the unit. They rely on having physical knobs for some things, but otherwise it's all tied up into level controls inside presets.

It's kinda weird how this stuff is like an afterthought for all modeler manufacturers. Most real world rigs have a single amp/cab, and fx are switched around them. Yet this scenario is impossible to replicate on many modelers unless you can fit everything you need inside one preset and its switching capabilities.

 

[AFKAEjay(retired)]

Can’t say I agree tbh.
Global EQs are well implemented on Boss, Kemper and QC..Boss the winner: on both outputs, you can even split L/R. QC there’s only one you can decide the output yourself. Afaic, well accessable for its intended use. Lack of presets? In my “proces” I don’t miss them. I set my stuff up to have a good chance to work “as is”, and the global EQ saves the day when a playback system/room/sound of a line up is different.

afaic Kemper has done a great job on global funtions. All there in the output/input menu, cabsims on/off where you need it, compensation for guitars with different outputs. Same for level controls, all there in a row in the output menu..1 click away. (If you want to)
Not a bad job on QC also..out/input levels one swipe away, within presets one click from the screen per audio path.
Lock function on KPA can do the “1 amp/cab” across presets, QC can do it in a kitchen sink with scenes, Boss idnk tbh

 

[Orvillain]

3 knob EQ's are not powerful enough.

I don't really get the concept of wanting to update a block or keep a block consistent across all presets to be honest. Seems way less useful and not as common as just wanting to maintain your own list of favourite settings. Updating a bunch of presets in the background with settings changes, without confirming how they actually sound in context, seems to be to be a huge mistake. It is the modeller equivalent of kicking a drumkit down a flight of stairs and expecting it to magically set itself up again at the bottom of them.

Helix has fantastic midi mapping capabilities. Quite literally destroys every other modeller, and there's not a lot you cannot achieve with it.

I don't really agree that your typical "single amp+cab, with FX switched around them" is impossible on many modellers. In fact, I'm struggling to think of a single one where you couldn't use it in that way.

 

[Progressive_disclosure]

I mostly have experience from Helix and some other cheaper units.

I would definitely like to see a view (at least in HX Edit) that has all the levels on all the blocks I’m using and functionality to help me level match presets/snapshots.

Also I’d very much like more global eq options than the HX Stomp has available. For example be able to tailor the headphone out eq and have it apply to both the regular output and USB audio. Then I could shave off the annoying higher freqs to smooth out my DT770 headphones and complain less about squirrels. ;-)

 

[ian_dissonance]

3 knob EQ's are not powerful enough.

I don't really get the concept of wanting to update a block or keep a block consistent across all presets to be honest. Seems way less useful and not as common as just wanting to maintain your own list of favourite settings. Updating a bunch of presets in the background with settings changes, without confirming how they actually sound in context, seems to be to be a huge mistake. It is the modeller equivalent of kicking a drumkit down a flight of stairs and expecting it to magically set itself up again at the bottom of them.

I didn’t know how I felt about this until I started messing with the GT-1000, but it is SUPER useful to have amp, post amp EQ, and boost blocks that are common across a bank of presets for live use. If your presets are all wildly different I can see it messing up the sounds, but for live stuff i usually stick with one dirt amp, one clean amp, and a couple of “standard” drives. So being able to adjust those from one preset during sound check is ideal, honestly. With Helix I pretty much stuck to one preset and snapshots live because if I did need to boost some mids or cut some gain on an amp I’d need to do it on all the presets I was going to use.

 

[Enchilada Jones]

Most real world rigs have a single amp/cab, and fx are switched around them. Yet this scenario is impossible to replicate on many modelers unless you can fit everything you need inside one preset and its switching capabilities.

Can't you just create a preset with amp and cab to replicate the 'real world' rig experience, name it rig 1. Then copy it and name that one rig 2...repeat as needed. Then add effects eq etc to each as needed which replicates the 'fx are switched around the static rig' part?

I must be missing something.

Do you want to avoid multiple presets of same static base rig and instead achieve the 'fx switching' bit by way of choosing from a list of saved fx blocks iterations of each available effects type? Fractal does that if I remember correctly.

 

[laxu]

3 knob EQ's are not powerful enough.

The low/high shelf + mid filter on the BluGuitar says otherwise. You can do a lot with a well executed 3-band that is not an amp tone stack. The point stands: a simpler EQ that doesn't require you to scratch your head about frequencies and Q values etc when all you want to do is solve some little problem with the sound.

I don't really get the concept of wanting to update a block or keep a block consistent across all presets to be honest. Seems way less useful and not as common as just wanting to maintain your own list of favourite settings. Updating a bunch of presets in the background with settings changes, without confirming how they actually sound in context, seems to be to be a huge mistake.

You plug all kinds of pedals into your amp setup all the time, but probably don't do anything but minimal tweaking to the amp settings. Same thing. Not every modeler is capable enough that you can just do everything inside one preset. Then if your favorite settings change, you will need to save and update those across all presets, vs that being done automatically via global blocks.

Helix has fantastic midi mapping capabilities. Quite literally destroys every other modeller, and there's not a lot you cannot achieve with it.

Helix will throw away any mapped parameters when you change a model. It makes no sense, and being per-preset means you have to configure them all over or copy/paste presets if you want to use the same mappings elsewhere.

Global mapping would work way easier. Param exists on preset? Knob on MIDI controller changes param. Param doesn't exist? Knob does nothing.

I don't really agree that your typical "single amp+cab, with FX switched around them" is impossible on many modellers. In fact, I'm struggling to think of a single one where you couldn't use it in that way.

It is a problem on anything with limited processing power. The more complex your signal chain, the more likely you run into block tetris or having to use multiple presets to get around "the block I want just doesn't fit in" issues. Which then makes keeping e.g your amp/cab sims consistent between them a bigger chore than they need to be.

 

[laxu]

Can't you just create a preset with amp and cab to replicate the 'real world' rig experience, name it rig 1. Then copy it and name that one rig 2...repeat as needed. Then add effects eq etc to each as needed which replicates the 'fx are switched around the static rig' part?

Yes you can. Then what if you want to change something? Then you need to configure all those presets one by one to your new settings. Forget about doing e.g "I changed my guitar, let's tweak all my presets a bit to accommodate it" type stuff, which is "turn a few knobs" on a real amp. You'd need to use e.g global EQ for this which is not the same thing as "let's raise the gain on my amp block a bit because I went from humbuckers to single coils".

Or you need to maintain multiple presets for different guitars, or switchable boost you use with your single coils or whatever workaround you can think of to get around it.

Do you want to avoid multiple presets of same static base rig and instead achieve the 'fx switching' bit by way of choosing from a list of saved fx blocks iterations of each available effects type? Fractal does that if I remember correctly.

The idea is that you can keep some parts of your rig static if you so desire. Fractal's Global blocks do this fine, even though they are a bit headscratching to figure out as they are somewhat shoehorned into a concept not designed for such a thing. I think Boss has some version of this too? But again, many modelers do not support this way of working.

 

[Orvillain]

The low/high shelf + mid filter on the BluGuitar says otherwise. You can do a lot with a well executed 3-band that is not an amp tone stack. The point stands: a simpler EQ that doesn't require you to scratch your head about frequencies and Q values etc when all you want to do is solve some little problem with the sound.

Fuck the BluGuitar.

You plug all kinds of pedals into your amp setup all the time, but probably don't do anything but minimal tweaking to the amp settings. Same thing. Not every modeler is capable enough that you can just do everything inside one preset. Then if your favorite settings change, you will need to save and update those across all presets, vs that being done automatically via global blocks.

That is not equivalent to the concept of global blocks at all.

Helix will throw away any mapped parameters when you change a model. It makes no sense, and being per-preset means you have to configure them all over or copy/paste presets if you want to use the same mappings elsewhere.

Don't care.

It is a problem on anything with limited processing power. The more complex your signal chain, the more likely you run into block tetris or having to use multiple presets to get around "the block I want just doesn't fit in" issues. Which then makes keeping e.g your amp/cab sims consistent between them a bigger chore than they need to be.

Thus, not impossible. Just improbable.

 

[Enchilada Jones]

Yes you can. Then what if you want to change something? Then you need to configure all those presets one by one to your new settings. Forget about doing e.g "I changed my guitar, let's tweak all my presets a bit to accommodate it" type stuff, which is "turn a few knobs" on a real amp. You'd need to use e.g global EQ for this which is not the same thing as "let's raise the gain on my amp block a bit because I went from humbuckers to single coils".

Or you need to maintain multiple presets for different guitars, or switchable boost you use with your single coils or whatever workaround you can think of to get around it.


The idea is that you can keep some parts of your rig static if you so desire. Fractal's Global blocks do this fine, even though they are a bit headscratching to figure out as they are somewhat shoehorned into a concept not designed for such a thing. I think Boss has some version of this too? But again, many modelers do not support this way of working.

Ahh ok, now I grasp it. Im assuming the need to change block settings is in reaction to the environment conditions song/mix/mood changes.

I bought a solution three days ago that gives me a version of that functionality. You forego the deep menus for controlling the DNA of every potential aspect of your sound but it is an experience that is very rewarding. Sets you free.

A modeling amp that offers 12 amp simulations, It has some basic effects but also takes pedals well. So it is the basic rig and your pedals play nicely. It has what you see is what you get dedicated controls for tone stack and gain, volume etc. That is the equivalent of real time global control.
Has USB audio and midi and XLR lines out.

$249 Line 6 Catalyst 60, if you want traditional midi get the 100 or 200 version for more cash.

 

[gearJunkie]

Global blocks - Fractal Audio Wiki

wiki.fractalaudio.com

 

[vino_buono]

• Functions that apply to all presets:
  • Global blocks don't even exist on most modelers so you could use e.g the same amp/cab settings across preset changes.
• Level control:
  • Many modelers don't have a single place to monitor and adjust all levels in/out of the unit. They rely on having physical knobs for some things, but otherwise it's all tied up into level controls inside presets.

I wholeheartedly agree with at least these two. I'd love a global input level control e.g. to adjust to different guitars, and global blocks so that I don't have to replicate any minute parameter change to all presets using that block in my setlist.

 

[BROCKSTAR]

I have never used global EQ in my helix in the 9 years I've had it. If I need any extra EQ, I'll do it per preset along the signal path. I reckon I'll probably be the same with the FM3 when it arrives.

Then again I'm just a home player. It may be more beneficial for live use to tweak depending on the room/venue etc.

 

[vino_buono]

I have never used global EQ in my helix in the 9 years I've had it. If I need any extra EQ, I'll do it per preset along the signal path. I reckon I'll probably be the same with the FM3 when it arrives.

Then again I'm just a home player. It may be more beneficial for live use to tweak depending on the room/venue etc.

I gig a few times a year and I have never used global EQ either. However, as an example use case, I typically use my own "FRFR" to project the guitar sound, but for the next gig I will use the PA. I plan to use the global EQ to adapt the sound to the PA system (usually it has boosted bass and treble and a tad less mids)

 

[AFKAEjay(retired)]

Then again I'm just a home player. It may be more beneficial for live use to tweak depending on the room/venue etc.

That’s one scenario where you grab for the global eq. Another:

Ime, when you split your sound into a cabsimmed to foh, and a full model of an amp into a powersection&cab….9/10 it will be too bright cause of the doubling up on the powersection. Global eq on the feed to the powersection is a solution for that.

 

[KingsXJJ]

I love having global EQ’s available. The rest is not huge to me.

 

[metropolis_4]

It’s a terrible time to be a guitarist

 

[nikitasius]

Helix has fantastic midi mapping capabilities. Quite literally destroys every other modeller, and there's not a lot you cannot achieve with it.

Helix looks great https://helixhelp.com/tips-and-guides/universal/midi

But it can't destroy the Boss units https://www.boss.info/global/suppor...manuals/474012ce-7054-4eea-a421-747a98579b74/