A lot of people will disagree with my hardware modeler ranking

[timbuck3]

People still use Vox Tonelab with their 30 guitars to.

In Music created Headrush, they bought Avid 11, made them take an already in house Akai name, and made them update the Avid 11 engine though. Still Avid people involved I think. 11 rack is still used in studios because it’s worth having it around. Tonelab is pretty dated though. But if your 30 guitars sound good with it to you, good for you.

so i use old tech? bif fing deal..My point was if jon feel kemper is long in the tooth i think it can apply to helix as well 9 yrs later..

 

[the swede]

so i use old tech? bif fing deal..My point was if jon feel kemper is long in the tooth i think it can apply to helix as well 9 yrs later..

It’s cool, no biggie! I did say, if it sounds good to you, it’s all good. I have some pedals that are really old… plastic and falling apart and such.. but I like em

 

[contrario]

Some people think the newer models in Helix sound better and more accurate compared to the old ones modeled before 2022.

The current Helix Core modeling engine is from November 2022. It was further improved in November 2023. There will be further tweaks to the underlying engine this fall. Anyone implying Helix's engine is from 2015 hasn't been paying attention.

Can this verify what they think? If so, are you planning to remodel every amp and fx in your collection from scratch?

It's been discussed here for a while but I think nobody has asked this to you directly before. Learning something about it would be great.

 

[megametal7]

I use 60s technology... what do I know ???

 

[Foxmeister]

Well duh, but that doesn’t make the Kemper a modeler.

You know what does?

 

[OneEng]

Ok. First off, Kemper is certainly no different than QC at a fundamental level. Less flexible for sure, but basically built with the same nuts and bolts from an architecture standpoint.

Second, the video and its conclusions are meaningless because there isn't a context. "Better for what?".

QC stinks for live use. The buttons are simply too close together. Ergonomics alone keep it FAR out of the top 5 for live gigging (the efx are mediocre at best as well).

If you sit in a room and record, it may be OK (if you can live with such an expensive device that has just "ok" effects).

I am not offended. I simply think the review lacks any relevance.

FWIW, I have ONLY seen Kemper and Axe III fx on a touring stage. In fact, last week I saw Willow & Childish Gambini perform in Detroit. Willow's guitarist was using a Kemper Rack and foot controller..... and she is a touring guitar pro.... so there are still quite a few people "still using it". For live work, it is #1 in my book (for most bands) with Axe III Fx being #2 for most bands, and #1 for some depending on the band and how they are using the guitar in their songs.

The Line 6 Helix gets honorable mention simply because it has really great efx, is fairly flexible, ergonomically suitable for a live gig, and a very good value for all it can do.

Pretty much everything else in the list is either a TOY .... or a very expensive TOY, but still a toy for live purposes.

Just curious, what criteria was used for the ranking?

I do believe that there are situations and guitarists where the other devices are a good fit. For someone that only fiddles in their basement, or someone that records, the live aspects of the devices are not important at all. For someone who really loves to fiddle with the setup of a digital amp (I like this term better than "modeler", "Profiler", or "Tone Capture") even a small Fractal is silly powerful and sounds very good... and has the most powerful editor I have ever seen.

For someone that simply doesn't have the $$$ for a Fractal, Line 6 has some crazy good pedals that do a ton for a great value.

Then there is size to consider. For touring (or for me, even weekend warrior work), only a full size pedal board is acceptable. For a throw-and-go rig, a 3 button device is perfect.

You really have to specify what you are attempting to do before you say "these are the BEST" .... don't you think?

 

[timbuck3]

Where is bluamp1?

 

[timbuck3]

Or g&l black spirit? In this list..

 

[norminal]

Where is bluamp1?

 

[GuitarJon]

Where is bluamp1?

Or g&l black spirit? In this list..

Those are analog Amplifiers, not digital guitar amp modelers / multi effect units.

 

[Foxmeister]

For someone that simply doesn't have the $$$ for a Fractal, Line 6 has some crazy good pedals that do a ton for a great value.

It isn't always about the money!

I could easily afford to buy multiple AxeFX3s if I wanted to, but I don't want a rack unit.

I had an FM3 but ended up moving back to my Helix, because I preferred the workflow.

I also bought an FM9 Turbo, because that was the unit I really wanted when I got my FM3, but again sold it and went back to my Helix.

More recently, I sold my Helix because between my HX Stomp and HX Stomp XL I can do everything that I need to do.

I do expect to dip my toe back in Fractal-land at some point, but I'd imagine that I'd be looking at something next-gen.

 

[[Nathan]]

QC stinks for live use. The buttons are simply too close together.

I have no dog in this fight but just like you said context is everything. I know more touring metal bands that are using QC’s these days over anything else. Some are running them on the floor individually, some are being used for multi instrument and in a rack somewhere, and some are tempo synched with live patch switching. Bands even have duplicates for redundancy (up to 6 qc’s in a rack depending on the setup).

I agree with a lot of what you said but the reality is that a lot are being used live.

 

[Piing]

Second, the video and its conclusions are meaningless because there isn't a context. "Better for what?".

Exactly. There is no context. Better for what?

Looking only at the quality, accuracy, features, and tweakability of the amp modeler itself, the conclusion is easy: currently Fractal is unrivaled. And the same could be said for most of the effects.

Need other features? Budget? Dimensions? Weight? Don't like the Fractal UI or workflow? Got a fever? Need cowbell? Look at other solutions.

 

[the swede]

The reason the QC has a large group of metal players as users:…those guys wear sneakers…all the country dudes wear boots. Jazz players wear sandals, also no issue there.

Howaboudus post-rock hipsters that play barefoot
Nothing works for us…. Except knobs… knobs knobs knobs. And sliders. Switches are yucky… we don’t like touching them at all.

 

[Piing]

Howaboudus post-rock hipsters that play barefoot
Nothing works for us…. Except knobs… knobs knobs knobs. And sliders. Switches are yucky… we don’t like touching them at all.

Indeed

 

[Jarick]

I got the QC specifically for live use, specifically for its formfactor….and many with me…(and I’m a 6’6 dude)
It didn’t even occurred to me the switches where close together untill I read it here…..after some gigs without missteps.
Maybe if you do arena gigs where you need to jump from trampolines on the the right switch you should consider something wider….all the others are just fine when you leave the cowboy boots at home.

I put the Mooer mushroom switch tips on mine and that was a no-go. They're too close and that made it even harder to pick the right one.

The side to side spacing isn't awful...it's about 2.5" where the Fractal is 3". But the top and bottom row are pretty damn close at about 2" where Fractal is nearly 4". I think that's where having some type of switch topper may be useful for the back row.

 

[timbuck3]

Sounds like a new fractal fm0 with no switches is what you all neef

 

[HomespunEffects]

It seems the GT-1000 is ranked higher for live players. Why is it ranked so low in the list here?

 

[the swede]

It really feels like there’s three different threads going with the exact same discussion.

 

[OneEng]

I have no dog in this fight but just like you said context is everything. I know more touring metal bands that are using QC’s these days over anything else. Some are running them on the floor individually, some are being used for multi instrument and in a rack somewhere, and some are tempo synched with live patch switching. Bands even have duplicates for redundancy (up to 6 qc’s in a rack depending on the setup).

I agree with a lot of what you said but the reality is that a lot are being used live.

Agreed. My evidence is mostly anecdotal .... and I don't go see metal bands :).

I do know many people that tour that initially went out and bought the QC and then dumped it explicitly because of the button clearance. A few others dumped it because of the lackluster efx (as compared to other devices in its price range).

Still, my greater point was that this comparison is crap without some context as to what each pedal is "best" for. For example:

Kemper, best for:

• Old tube amp players that want a more simple and understandable interface
• Excellent low to medium gain sounds
• Good EFX
• Good ergonomic pedal for gigging
• Good workflow for gigging
• Good value for the price (Not quite as good as Helix though).

Kemper, Not so good for:

• Routing flexibility
• Multiple amp sounds in a single patch
• High level of layered EFX (>8)
• Multiple input and output (more than just an efx loop)
• Graphical editor (Kemper's is weak compared to others)
• Small form factor (The Player is hardly a Kemper until they upgrade it as it is missing most of what makes the full sized Kemper good in the first place).

Price, size and capturing capabilities are also dimensions where fractal doesn’t win the race imo.
Good amp sounds is no longer the territory of 2 brands….it almost has become a commodity.
Depending on the user (context), more features / tweakability / accuracy may no longer add value.

When I did my last purchase…the amount of switches and IO cranked into a small device, and capture capabilities where the main axes of the decision.

Iow…there is no “best for everyone” device on the market yet.

This!!

I believe that ToneX and QC actually take the cake for capturing capabilities. (Since I predominantly use other people's captures, this matters little to me and those like me, but to some, it is the biggest factor).

Fractal also suffers from "NewHardwareItus". The company has a history of stopping support for old hardware and moving on to new hardware .... although it seems the Axe III generation is lasting longer than anything in the Axe II gen did.

My personal favorite for a cost effective, throw and go play with the guys for a night pedal is the Helix HX Stomp XL. Not as good as a Kemper IMO, but WAY less expensive (about half of a Kemper Stage) and certainly has everything you would need to gig with. All this and you get a much more flexible routing capability (and a better editor).

So .... not every guitar player uses their pedalboard the same way or has the same needs, therefore, there isn't a "best for everything" pedal, but rather a "best if you need ...." pedalboard.... and even then it comes down to what you MOST need. For some people, the routing and editor are the most important things. None of these people will go for a Kemper. They are more likely a Fractal fit (or possibly QC or Helix depending on other needs).