A lot of people will disagree with my hardware modeler ranking

[Piing]

Howaboudus post-rock hipsters that play barefoot
Nothing works for us…. Except knobs… knobs knobs knobs. And sliders. Switches are yucky… we don’t like touching them at all.

Indeed

 

[AFKAEjay(retired)]

Indeed

Always good to start the day with a shiny knob!

 

[Jarick]

I got the QC specifically for live use, specifically for its formfactor….and many with me…(and I’m a 6’6 dude)
It didn’t even occurred to me the switches where close together untill I read it here…..after some gigs without missteps.
Maybe if you do arena gigs where you need to jump from trampolines on the the right switch you should consider something wider….all the others are just fine when you leave the cowboy boots at home.

I put the Mooer mushroom switch tips on mine and that was a no-go. They're too close and that made it even harder to pick the right one.

The side to side spacing isn't awful...it's about 2.5" where the Fractal is 3". But the top and bottom row are pretty damn close at about 2" where Fractal is nearly 4". I think that's where having some type of switch topper may be useful for the back row.

 

[timbuck3]

Sounds like a new fractal fm0 with no switches is what you all neef

 

[HomespunEffects]

It seems the GT-1000 is ranked higher for live players. Why is it ranked so low in the list here?

 

[the swede]

It really feels like there’s three different threads going with the exact same discussion.

 

[OneEng]

I have no dog in this fight but just like you said context is everything. I know more touring metal bands that are using QC’s these days over anything else. Some are running them on the floor individually, some are being used for multi instrument and in a rack somewhere, and some are tempo synched with live patch switching. Bands even have duplicates for redundancy (up to 6 qc’s in a rack depending on the setup).

I agree with a lot of what you said but the reality is that a lot are being used live.

Agreed. My evidence is mostly anecdotal .... and I don't go see metal bands :).

I do know many people that tour that initially went out and bought the QC and then dumped it explicitly because of the button clearance. A few others dumped it because of the lackluster efx (as compared to other devices in its price range).

Still, my greater point was that this comparison is crap without some context as to what each pedal is "best" for. For example:

Kemper, best for:

• Old tube amp players that want a more simple and understandable interface
• Excellent low to medium gain sounds
• Good EFX
• Good ergonomic pedal for gigging
• Good workflow for gigging
• Good value for the price (Not quite as good as Helix though).

Kemper, Not so good for:

• Routing flexibility
• Multiple amp sounds in a single patch
• High level of layered EFX (>8)
• Multiple input and output (more than just an efx loop)
• Graphical editor (Kemper's is weak compared to others)
• Small form factor (The Player is hardly a Kemper until they upgrade it as it is missing most of what makes the full sized Kemper good in the first place).

Price, size and capturing capabilities are also dimensions where fractal doesn’t win the race imo.
Good amp sounds is no longer the territory of 2 brands….it almost has become a commodity.
Depending on the user (context), more features / tweakability / accuracy may no longer add value.

When I did my last purchase…the amount of switches and IO cranked into a small device, and capture capabilities where the main axes of the decision.

Iow…there is no “best for everyone” device on the market yet.

This!!

I believe that ToneX and QC actually take the cake for capturing capabilities. (Since I predominantly use other people's captures, this matters little to me and those like me, but to some, it is the biggest factor).

Fractal also suffers from "NewHardwareItus". The company has a history of stopping support for old hardware and moving on to new hardware .... although it seems the Axe III generation is lasting longer than anything in the Axe II gen did.

My personal favorite for a cost effective, throw and go play with the guys for a night pedal is the Helix HX Stomp XL. Not as good as a Kemper IMO, but WAY less expensive (about half of a Kemper Stage) and certainly has everything you would need to gig with. All this and you get a much more flexible routing capability (and a better editor).

So .... not every guitar player uses their pedalboard the same way or has the same needs, therefore, there isn't a "best for everything" pedal, but rather a "best if you need ...." pedalboard.... and even then it comes down to what you MOST need. For some people, the routing and editor are the most important things. None of these people will go for a Kemper. They are more likely a Fractal fit (or possibly QC or Helix depending on other needs).

 

[dean701]

In Jon's defense, his channel is full of other videos that go into great detail of how each of the units function. This video was more of a recap. TBH, I'm not sure Dan added any value though. Not that I mind his own videos, but he didn't seem to be familiar with many of the platforms to give a valued opinion.
I would put the QC at the top as the overall winner if it didn't have Quality Control issues. Fractal and Helix can ride second. Although if we are including full profilers, I would put the Kemper at 2nd and move the Fractal and Helix to 3rd. Effects are great but limited but I can still plug into a Kemper and get a tone immediately that I enjoy with zero messing around. I don't have huge feet so similar to the MC8 button spacing, I find no issue with the QC spacing.

 

[Jarick]

Spent the last several days shooting out the Fractal, QC, and HX Stomp. As fun as the Stomp is, I don't feel like the effects are enough of a leap over the QC to justify using it, which I haven't done much in months.

Then with QC vs Fractal, there's a ton more variety in the Fractal but the QC meat and potatoes is really good. It's easier to use and more straightforward.

However...I watched some videos with 80's rack setups and that's just something you can't do too easily in QC where Fractal is really straightforward to go parallel. End of the day, it's not a big leap tonally but it's fun.

Then decided to put the Friedman IR-X in 4CM with the Fractal...that might be it. I LOVED this setup late last year. I tried the Friedman in 4CM with the Boss GT-1000 (too harsh, don't like the Boss effects), with the HX Stomp (it's okay but seemed to lose some punch and presence), and with the QC (sounds good but the QC amps are close enough to the Friedman). For whatever reason, the Friedman + Fractal sounds killer together.

Pulled the Axe FX 3 listing off Reverb...maybe that's the best home studio tool I've got. Can easily run different outputs (to interface or to a real power amp and cab), I've got the FC-12 for switching already, tons of flexibility, tons of power.

 

[Frodebro]

@GuitarJon naaahw waaait… no post on tgp?!?

I want to make popcorn and watch Dawson go nuts over why a Boss unit can be so far down the list when boot times and latency is what makes it nr1….

Why bother? Somebody will get butthurt over the ranking of whatever they own, and as soon as they finish the emergency call to their therapist they'll troll Jon until he responds. Then they'll report that post and try to get him banned.

 

[dean701]

From what I've seen here, some people are equally overly offended when someone says that Fractal isn't their device of choice. People need to relax. It's just music gear.

 

[Frodebro]

From what I've seen here, some people are equally overly offended when someone says that Fractal isn't their device of choice. People need to relax. It's just music gear.

You can tell a lot about a person by the way they conduct themselves when faced with an opinion they disagree with.

 

[norminal]

From what I've seen here, some people are equally overly offended when someone says that Fractal isn't their device of choice. People need to relax. It's just music gear.

 

[Frodebro]

View attachment 27289

Screw that, I say bring it on, cupcakes. I lubricate my encoders with the tears of butthurt snowflakes.

 

[Eagle]

You only see Axe and Kemper really at the high end of touring. QC would fall apart and that is before you decide the FX suck . Helix sounds too line 6 and the rest are irrelevant. Special mention goes to the Headflush for sounding universally shit in all live scenarios ( think PV bandit miked up in the gents back through Beringer’s finest $500 pa) or worse still their own FR FU speakers.

 

[Eagle]

Best value for tone is easily the power Kemper and a guitar cab appropriate for your style of music.

 

[Orvillain]

Old tube amp players that want a more simple and understandable interface

Never really understood this point to be honest. People rag on the Axe FX experience, but when you actually compare it to Kemper, they're the same thing.

Kemper has something ridiculous like 14 settings pages. That's just the global settings. You get more pages depending on what area of the unit you're focused on. Then you've got four knobs, four buttons, and an additional 'type' knob and 'browse' knob - these later two making absolutely no sense half the time.

But the point is.... it really isn't any easier to navigate. At least not to me, and I've owned 6 of the bloody things! There's a lot of paging, a lot of squinting to read small fonts, a lot of following lines between things to try and parse what is going on. It is a complete mess to be honest, and truly does feel like using a VCR from the 80's !!

 

[Eagle]

Never really understood this point to be honest. People rag on the Axe FX experience, but when you actually compare it to Kemper, they're the same thing.

Kemper has something ridiculous like 14 settings pages. That's just the global settings. You get more pages depending on what area of the unit you're focused on. Then you've got four knobs, four buttons, and an additional 'type' knob and 'browse' knob - these later two making absolutely no sense half the time.

But the point is.... it really isn't any easier to navigate. At least not to me, and I've owned 6 of the bloody things! There's a lot of paging, a lot of squinting to read small fonts, a lot of following lines between things to try and parse what is going on. It is a complete mess to be honest, and truly does feel like using a VCR from the 80's !!

I fail to see how you could control this many parameters more easily.

 

[Eagle]

The newest Kemper computer interface is very simple and easy to use. But so is Axe Edit.

 

[Orvillain]

I fail to see how you could control this many parameters more easily.

Agreed.

You either take away parameters, switching them out for some high level macro controls, which limits the capabilities of the unit. Or you try and group them in more sensible ways, but then you have to hope those groupings are intuitive for the end user, who are not a monolithic group with the same experiences and expectations. Or you try and offer a couple of different ways of looking at the same information, but then you run the risk of actually making the product more confusing instead of less confusing.

There are LOTS of different ways to attempt to solve a UX problem. It's never going to be 100% correct.