A lot of people will disagree with my hardware modeler ranking

[dean701]

In Jon's defense, his channel is full of other videos that go into great detail of how each of the units function. This video was more of a recap. TBH, I'm not sure Dan added any value though. Not that I mind his own videos, but he didn't seem to be familiar with many of the platforms to give a valued opinion.
I would put the QC at the top as the overall winner if it didn't have Quality Control issues. Fractal and Helix can ride second. Although if we are including full profilers, I would put the Kemper at 2nd and move the Fractal and Helix to 3rd. Effects are great but limited but I can still plug into a Kemper and get a tone immediately that I enjoy with zero messing around. I don't have huge feet so similar to the MC8 button spacing, I find no issue with the QC spacing.

 

[Jarick]

Spent the last several days shooting out the Fractal, QC, and HX Stomp. As fun as the Stomp is, I don't feel like the effects are enough of a leap over the QC to justify using it, which I haven't done much in months.

Then with QC vs Fractal, there's a ton more variety in the Fractal but the QC meat and potatoes is really good. It's easier to use and more straightforward.

However...I watched some videos with 80's rack setups and that's just something you can't do too easily in QC where Fractal is really straightforward to go parallel. End of the day, it's not a big leap tonally but it's fun.

Then decided to put the Friedman IR-X in 4CM with the Fractal...that might be it. I LOVED this setup late last year. I tried the Friedman in 4CM with the Boss GT-1000 (too harsh, don't like the Boss effects), with the HX Stomp (it's okay but seemed to lose some punch and presence), and with the QC (sounds good but the QC amps are close enough to the Friedman). For whatever reason, the Friedman + Fractal sounds killer together.

Pulled the Axe FX 3 listing off Reverb...maybe that's the best home studio tool I've got. Can easily run different outputs (to interface or to a real power amp and cab), I've got the FC-12 for switching already, tons of flexibility, tons of power.

 

[Frodebro]

@GuitarJon naaahw waaait… no post on tgp?!?

I want to make popcorn and watch Dawson go nuts over why a Boss unit can be so far down the list when boot times and latency is what makes it nr1….

Why bother? Somebody will get butthurt over the ranking of whatever they own, and as soon as they finish the emergency call to their therapist they'll troll Jon until he responds. Then they'll report that post and try to get him banned.

 

[dean701]

From what I've seen here, some people are equally overly offended when someone says that Fractal isn't their device of choice. People need to relax. It's just music gear.

 

[Frodebro]

From what I've seen here, some people are equally overly offended when someone says that Fractal isn't their device of choice. People need to relax. It's just music gear.

You can tell a lot about a person by the way they conduct themselves when faced with an opinion they disagree with.

 

[norminal]

From what I've seen here, some people are equally overly offended when someone says that Fractal isn't their device of choice. People need to relax. It's just music gear.

 

[Frodebro]

View attachment 27289

Screw that, I say bring it on, cupcakes. I lubricate my encoders with the tears of butthurt snowflakes.

 

[Eagle]

You only see Axe and Kemper really at the high end of touring. QC would fall apart and that is before you decide the FX suck . Helix sounds too line 6 and the rest are irrelevant. Special mention goes to the Headflush for sounding universally shit in all live scenarios ( think PV bandit miked up in the gents back through Beringer’s finest $500 pa) or worse still their own FR FU speakers.

 

[Eagle]

Best value for tone is easily the power Kemper and a guitar cab appropriate for your style of music.

 

[Orvillain]

Old tube amp players that want a more simple and understandable interface

Never really understood this point to be honest. People rag on the Axe FX experience, but when you actually compare it to Kemper, they're the same thing.

Kemper has something ridiculous like 14 settings pages. That's just the global settings. You get more pages depending on what area of the unit you're focused on. Then you've got four knobs, four buttons, and an additional 'type' knob and 'browse' knob - these later two making absolutely no sense half the time.

But the point is.... it really isn't any easier to navigate. At least not to me, and I've owned 6 of the bloody things! There's a lot of paging, a lot of squinting to read small fonts, a lot of following lines between things to try and parse what is going on. It is a complete mess to be honest, and truly does feel like using a VCR from the 80's !!

 

[Eagle]

Never really understood this point to be honest. People rag on the Axe FX experience, but when you actually compare it to Kemper, they're the same thing.

Kemper has something ridiculous like 14 settings pages. That's just the global settings. You get more pages depending on what area of the unit you're focused on. Then you've got four knobs, four buttons, and an additional 'type' knob and 'browse' knob - these later two making absolutely no sense half the time.

But the point is.... it really isn't any easier to navigate. At least not to me, and I've owned 6 of the bloody things! There's a lot of paging, a lot of squinting to read small fonts, a lot of following lines between things to try and parse what is going on. It is a complete mess to be honest, and truly does feel like using a VCR from the 80's !!

I fail to see how you could control this many parameters more easily.

 

[Eagle]

The newest Kemper computer interface is very simple and easy to use. But so is Axe Edit.

 

[Orvillain]

I fail to see how you could control this many parameters more easily.

Agreed.

You either take away parameters, switching them out for some high level macro controls, which limits the capabilities of the unit. Or you try and group them in more sensible ways, but then you have to hope those groupings are intuitive for the end user, who are not a monolithic group with the same experiences and expectations. Or you try and offer a couple of different ways of looking at the same information, but then you run the risk of actually making the product more confusing instead of less confusing.

There are LOTS of different ways to attempt to solve a UX problem. It's never going to be 100% correct.

 

[Eagle]

Agreed.

You either take away parameters, switching them out for some high level macro controls, which limits the capabilities of the unit. Or you try and group them in more sensible ways, but then you have to hope those groupings are intuitive for the end user, who are not a monolithic group with the same experiences and expectations. Or you try and offer a couple of different ways of looking at the same information, but then you run the risk of actually making the product more confusing instead of less confusing.

There are LOTS of different ways to attempt to solve a UX problem. It's never going to be 100% correct.

I’ve never understood the problem. Anything that does this much is going to need some time to familiarise yourself with it. It’s never going to be intuitive for everyone but I think Kemper and Axe are both pretty easy to learn. The real issue for me is people who get lost adjusting parameters they don’t understand the effect of. It would be like putting a bias next to the volume on an amp and not reading the instructions.

 

[Orvillain]

I haven't watched Jon's video, coz I can't really be arsed with the other guys he made it with. But thinking about price and just limiting it to the all-in-one-floor-unit types:

FM9 MKII Turbo - £1959
Quad Cortex - £1499
Kemper Stage - £1349
Helix - £1149
Boss GT1000 - £949
Helix LT - £749

Competition is clearly quite strong in that £700 - £1500 price bracket. Most people are not going to buy an FM9 because of the price differential, the fact it offers a lot more than the other units but is often a lot more than people truly want or need, and also the fact you can only buy it from a few select places rather than Amazon, Guitar Center, Andertons, GuitarGuitar, etc etc.... The Fractal stuff isn't seen as often largely down to those kinds of things.

Line 6 really smashed it out of the park when they decided to have one monolithic codebase that they could modularize into a variety of products. It really is a clever way of doing it, and with the distribution network that they have, it is easy to see why there are so many Helix devices in studios and on stages all around the world.

At the moment you can get a Helix Floor from GuitarGuitar for £1099 as part of their summer sale - that is an absolute steal!!

 

[Eagle]

I haven't watched Jon's video, coz I can't really be arsed with the other guys he made it with. But thinking about price and just limiting it to the all-in-one-floor-unit types:

FM9 MKII Turbo - £1959
Quad Cortex - £1499
Kemper Stage - £1349
Helix - £1149
Boss GT1000 - £949
Helix LT - £749

Competition is clearly quite strong in that £700 - £1500 price bracket. Most people are not going to buy an FM9 because of the price differential, the fact it offers a lot more than the other units but is often a lot more than people truly want or need, and also the fact you can only buy it from a few select places rather than Amazon, Guitar Center, Andertons, GuitarGuitar, etc etc.... The Fractal stuff isn't seen as often largely down to those kinds of things.

Line 6 really smashed it out of the park when they decided to have one monolithic codebase that they could modularize into a variety of products. It really is a clever way of doing it, and with the distribution network that they have, it is easy to see why there are so many Helix devices in studios and on stages all around the world.

At the moment you can get a Helix Floor from GuitarGuitar for £1099 as part of their summer sale - that is an absolute steal!!

I agree with this but I have reservations about the QC . This would be right if you didn’t take in to account the FX and the robustness of the unit (lack of).
Also I personally prefer the rack versions with a foot controller and external power amp.

 

[the swede]

FM9 MKII Turbo - £1959
Quad Cortex - £1499
Kemper Stage - £1349
Helix - £1149
Boss GT1000 - £949
Helix LT - £749

now that’s pretty awesome in the context of things. LT vs GT… I bet “boot time Dawson” can justify that difference there.

 

[Orvillain]

now that’s pretty awesome in the context of things. LT vs GT… I bet “boot time Dawson” can justify that difference there.

Honestly, if you were quite pressed for cash, the Helix LT is one of the best bangs for buck you can get.

 

[the swede]

Honestly, if you were quite pressed for cash, the Helix LT is one of the best bangs for buck you can get.

Yep. I would buy the LT today if I wanted a modeler.

 

[Baba]

People still use Kemper?

Do you go to shows? It's probably the one I see the most, especially with touring bands. I never see half of your list out in the wild.

As strange as it is, between players I know, and other bands that I play with, I see more Kempers than anything else, followed by HX, and I know 1 guitar player who uses a QC, and a bass player that uses a QC.

I have seen only 2 Fractals on local stages, one was like, 7 years ago, the other, was a year ago.