A lot of people will disagree with my hardware modeler ranking

[Eagle]

Agreed.

You either take away parameters, switching them out for some high level macro controls, which limits the capabilities of the unit. Or you try and group them in more sensible ways, but then you have to hope those groupings are intuitive for the end user, who are not a monolithic group with the same experiences and expectations. Or you try and offer a couple of different ways of looking at the same information, but then you run the risk of actually making the product more confusing instead of less confusing.

There are LOTS of different ways to attempt to solve a UX problem. It's never going to be 100% correct.

I’ve never understood the problem. Anything that does this much is going to need some time to familiarise yourself with it. It’s never going to be intuitive for everyone but I think Kemper and Axe are both pretty easy to learn. The real issue for me is people who get lost adjusting parameters they don’t understand the effect of. It would be like putting a bias next to the volume on an amp and not reading the instructions.

 

[Orvillain]

I haven't watched Jon's video, coz I can't really be arsed with the other guys he made it with. But thinking about price and just limiting it to the all-in-one-floor-unit types:

FM9 MKII Turbo - £1959
Quad Cortex - £1499
Kemper Stage - £1349
Helix - £1149
Boss GT1000 - £949
Helix LT - £749

Competition is clearly quite strong in that £700 - £1500 price bracket. Most people are not going to buy an FM9 because of the price differential, the fact it offers a lot more than the other units but is often a lot more than people truly want or need, and also the fact you can only buy it from a few select places rather than Amazon, Guitar Center, Andertons, GuitarGuitar, etc etc.... The Fractal stuff isn't seen as often largely down to those kinds of things.

Line 6 really smashed it out of the park when they decided to have one monolithic codebase that they could modularize into a variety of products. It really is a clever way of doing it, and with the distribution network that they have, it is easy to see why there are so many Helix devices in studios and on stages all around the world.

At the moment you can get a Helix Floor from GuitarGuitar for £1099 as part of their summer sale - that is an absolute steal!!

 

[Eagle]

I haven't watched Jon's video, coz I can't really be arsed with the other guys he made it with. But thinking about price and just limiting it to the all-in-one-floor-unit types:

FM9 MKII Turbo - £1959
Quad Cortex - £1499
Kemper Stage - £1349
Helix - £1149
Boss GT1000 - £949
Helix LT - £749

Competition is clearly quite strong in that £700 - £1500 price bracket. Most people are not going to buy an FM9 because of the price differential, the fact it offers a lot more than the other units but is often a lot more than people truly want or need, and also the fact you can only buy it from a few select places rather than Amazon, Guitar Center, Andertons, GuitarGuitar, etc etc.... The Fractal stuff isn't seen as often largely down to those kinds of things.

Line 6 really smashed it out of the park when they decided to have one monolithic codebase that they could modularize into a variety of products. It really is a clever way of doing it, and with the distribution network that they have, it is easy to see why there are so many Helix devices in studios and on stages all around the world.

At the moment you can get a Helix Floor from GuitarGuitar for £1099 as part of their summer sale - that is an absolute steal!!

I agree with this but I have reservations about the QC . This would be right if you didn’t take in to account the FX and the robustness of the unit (lack of).
Also I personally prefer the rack versions with a foot controller and external power amp.

 

[the swede]

FM9 MKII Turbo - £1959
Quad Cortex - £1499
Kemper Stage - £1349
Helix - £1149
Boss GT1000 - £949
Helix LT - £749

now that’s pretty awesome in the context of things. LT vs GT… I bet “boot time Dawson” can justify that difference there.

 

[Orvillain]

now that’s pretty awesome in the context of things. LT vs GT… I bet “boot time Dawson” can justify that difference there.

Honestly, if you were quite pressed for cash, the Helix LT is one of the best bangs for buck you can get.

 

[the swede]

Honestly, if you were quite pressed for cash, the Helix LT is one of the best bangs for buck you can get.

Yep. I would buy the LT today if I wanted a modeler.

 

[Baba]

People still use Kemper?

Do you go to shows? It's probably the one I see the most, especially with touring bands. I never see half of your list out in the wild.

As strange as it is, between players I know, and other bands that I play with, I see more Kempers than anything else, followed by HX, and I know 1 guitar player who uses a QC, and a bass player that uses a QC.

I have seen only 2 Fractals on local stages, one was like, 7 years ago, the other, was a year ago.

 

[OneEng]

Never really understood this point to be honest. People rag on the Axe FX experience, but when you actually compare it to Kemper, they're the same thing.

Kemper has something ridiculous like 14 settings pages. That's just the global settings. You get more pages depending on what area of the unit you're focused on. Then you've got four knobs, four buttons, and an additional 'type' knob and 'browse' knob - these later two making absolutely no sense half the time.

But the point is.... it really isn't any easier to navigate. At least not to me, and I've owned 6 of the bloody things! There's a lot of paging, a lot of squinting to read small fonts, a lot of following lines between things to try and parse what is going on. It is a complete mess to be honest, and truly does feel like using a VCR from the 80's !!

Oh come on now. Not sure how a person who was used to a traditional tube amp rig could use both a Kemper and an Axe III Fx and not quickly come to the conclusion that it was far easier to obtain the sound they were looking for on the Axe III Fx.

Kemper has a VERY traditional layout. 4 pre efx slots, an amp module, and 4 post efx slots. Looks and routes like most tube amps with a pedal boards out there.

I will agree that the on-device editor is clunky if you want to do anything MORE advanced than basic editing; however, basic editing (on a Kemper) is about all most people need to get a sound they are looking for.

I hear you, but I can't agree with you on this point. Having extensively used both (I only own the Kemper, but have spent days on the Axe III Fx), I am readily willing to agree that the Fractal editor is light years more powerful and flexible than Kemper; however, if you are just trying to get a specific sound to cover a song, and you are not much of a tweaker (btw, that is the VAST majority of live players out there), the Kemper is just WAY easier to get the sound you are looking for. Here is the recipe I use:

1. Search the web for what amp efx combo was used on the original song
2. Search for a Kemper rig that has that amp (or an amp that is like that amp) on rig manager and audition it
3. Tweak the eq on the amp module to get the correct gain and tone for your guitar and speaker setup
4. Add the efx into the chain needed for that tone.

For MOST covers, all you need is a good amp sound, a good verb, and maybe a delay .... all of which Kemper provides with a very "Tube Amp Like" front interface.

In contrast, most tube amp / pedal board users would find the Axe III Fx edit interface daunting and alien.

 

[dean701]

The on-board UI for Kemper was the reason I left that ecosystem and the minimal routing functionality.

Having said that the software client is still my favorite of all time. Having all profiles accessible on a windows folder and being able to load any with a click is amazing. You don't need the device online to use the client either.

 

[ian_dissonance]

As strange as it is, between players I know, and other bands that I play with, I see more Kempers than anything else, followed by HX, and I know 1 guitar player who uses a QC, and a bass player that uses a QC.

I have seen only 2 Fractals on local stages, one was like, 7 years ago, the other, was a year ago.

HX Stomp/Helix/LT and FM3 are the most common for the shows we play, Kemper is a distant 3rd and I think I’ve seen 2-3 QC with touring acts. I know a bunch of people who own AxeFX racks, but they never take them out of the house.

 

[OneEng]

The newest Kemper computer interface is very simple and easy to use. But so is Axe Edit.

It's fairly simple to use, but only because I use it all the time. It is clear that Kemper is modeled (forgive the pun) after a traditional tube amp and pedalboard. If this is what you are used to, then the Kemper interface and GUI editor makes sense. Still, there are lots of things that are hidden here and there and don't follow with any known paradigm anyone would be used to.

 

[OneEng]

HX Stomp/Helix/LT and FM3 are the most common for the shows we play, Kemper is a distant 3rd and I think I’ve seen 2-3 QC with touring acts. I know a bunch of people who own AxeFX racks, but they never take them out of the house.

I think it depends on what kind of live shows we are talking about. For weekend warriors, generally you won't see as many high end solutions as many of these guys don't have the kind of money it takes to buy them.

For touring (or even higher end local bands), you will never see an HX Stomp/FM3 class device being used. I know of plenty of national acts that use Fractal. Never heard of one (that doesn't mean it doesn't exist of course) that use a Helix.

I agree that many of the guys I know that have an Axe III Fx play with them in their recording studios and they never see the light of day :).

 

[Lysander]

For touring (or even higher end local bands), you will never see an HX Stomp/FM3 class device being used. I know of plenty of national acts that use Fractal. Never heard of one (that doesn't mean it doesn't exist of course) that use a Helix.

Horseshit - sorry. I'll admit i haven't run into many FM3s, but i try to catch as many touring bands as i can when they visit town, and i regularly see Floor Helices, or boards with HX devices. In fact, it's normally either those or an AxeFX III stuck into a rack.

Last big act was Filter, ~5 months ago. Both guitar and bass straight into Helix Floors, and sounding incredible.

Same experience with Smashing Pumpkins, Rival Sons, Deftones, Devin Townsend and quite a few more.

 

[ian_dissonance]

I think it depends on what kind of live shows we are talking about. For weekend warriors, generally you won't see as many high end solutions as many of these guys don't have the kind of money it takes to buy them.

For touring (or even higher end local bands), you will never see an HX Stomp/FM3 class device being used. I know of plenty of national acts that use Fractal. Never heard of one (that doesn't mean it doesn't exist of course) that use a Helix.

I agree that many of the guys I know that have an Axe III Fx play with them in their recording studios and they never see the light of day :).

I’ve seen plenty internationally touring bands playing HX stuff over the last 10 years. I know it hurts the Fractal kids to know that a headliner might be able to use a Helix for their rig, but it happens quite a bit.

 

[Orvillain]

I've seen loads more bands using Helix than anything else.

 

[dean701]

I think it depends on what kind of live shows we are talking about. For weekend warriors, generally you won't see as many high end solutions as many of these guys don't have the kind of money it takes to buy them.

For touring (or even higher end local bands), you will never see an HX Stomp/FM3 class device being used. I know of plenty of national acts that use Fractal. Never heard of one (that doesn't mean it doesn't exist of course) that use a Helix.

I agree that many of the guys I know that have an Axe III Fx play with them in their recording studios and they never see the light of day :).

Richie Castellano of Blue Oyster Cult tours with a Helix. Now you know of one. :)

edit: and here's Steve Stevens' pedal board with an HX Effects.

 

[AFKAEjay(retired)]

Oh come on now. Not sure how a person who was used to a traditional tube amp rig could use both a Kemper and an Axe III Fx and not quickly come to the conclusion that it was far easier to obtain the sound they were looking for on the Axe III Fx.

Kemper has a VERY traditional layout. 4 pre efx slots, an amp module, and 4 post efx slots. Looks and routes like most tube amps with a pedal boards out there.

I will agree that the on-device editor is clunky if you want to do anything MORE advanced than basic editing; however, basic editing (on a Kemper) is about all most people need to get a sound they are looking for.

I hear you, but I can't agree with you on this point. Having extensively used both (I only own the Kemper, but have spent days on the Axe III Fx), I am readily willing to agree that the Fractal editor is light years more powerful and flexible than Kemper; however, if you are just trying to get a specific sound to cover a song, and you are not much of a tweaker (btw, that is the VAST majority of live players out there), the Kemper is just WAY easier to get the sound you are looking for. Here is the recipe I use:

1. Search the web for what amp efx combo was used on the original song
2. Search for a Kemper rig that has that amp (or an amp that is like that amp) on rig manager and audition it
3. Tweak the eq on the amp module to get the correct gain and tone for your guitar and speaker setup
4. Add the efx into the chain needed for that tone.

For MOST covers, all you need is a good amp sound, a good verb, and maybe a delay .... all of which Kemper provides with a very "Tube Amp Like" front interface.

In contrast, most tube amp / pedal board users would find the Axe III Fx edit interface daunting and alien.

My summary: Kemper is great once you have your stuff setup…at playtime: all parameters you need for a quick adjustment are in your face.
Tweaktime: Setting up performances, especially when you want to do some nitty gritty…that’s a bit harder then other devices.

So in my mind…when you are a user that sets up once…and then rolls with the main parameters of it..then the UI really pays off.
If you have fun experimenting with sounds and dial a lot…maybe Kemper is not your device.

 

[AFKAEjay(retired)]

I think it depends on what kind of live shows we are talking about. For weekend warriors, generally you won't see as many high end solutions as many of these guys don't have the kind of money it takes to buy them.

For touring (or even higher end local bands), you will never see an HX Stomp/FM3 class device being used. I know of plenty of national acts that use Fractal. Never heard of one (that doesn't mean it doesn't exist of course) that use a Helix.

I agree that many of the guys I know that have an Axe III Fx play with them in their recording studios and they never see the light of day :).

#manteomancuso is the first that comes to mind…

 

[Jarick]

I see a mix of a lot of different stuff…for bigger bands there’s a lot of Fractal units (Metallica, Blink 182, Smashing Pumpkins). I haven’t seen as many QC’s or Helix but it’s likely just the bands I’m seeing. Still see a lot of tube amps and pedals though.

If I were gigging quite a bit I’d probably look at either Helix or FM9. I like the QC but it just feels a little fragile. It’s probably not, but the power supply is flimsy and I’d want a board for it to rest on and a screen protector. Both FM9 and Helix should be rugged enough to just put the board on the floor and go. QC is probably better on a bigger board or rack mounted.

Kemper I probably woudn’t mess with because it’s so profile dependent. Really good unit overall but I just prefer modeling devices as you can swap out cabs easier to fine tune the sound.

 

[Eagle]

As strange as it is, between players I know, and other bands that I play with, I see more Kempers than anything else, followed by HX, and I know 1 guitar player who uses a QC, and a bass player that uses a QC.

I have seen only 2 Fractals on local stages, one was like, 7 years ago, the other, was a year ago.

Yes “local” is the reason.