A lot of people will disagree with my hardware modeler ranking

[OneEng]

Never really understood this point to be honest. People rag on the Axe FX experience, but when you actually compare it to Kemper, they're the same thing.

Kemper has something ridiculous like 14 settings pages. That's just the global settings. You get more pages depending on what area of the unit you're focused on. Then you've got four knobs, four buttons, and an additional 'type' knob and 'browse' knob - these later two making absolutely no sense half the time.

But the point is.... it really isn't any easier to navigate. At least not to me, and I've owned 6 of the bloody things! There's a lot of paging, a lot of squinting to read small fonts, a lot of following lines between things to try and parse what is going on. It is a complete mess to be honest, and truly does feel like using a VCR from the 80's !!

Oh come on now. Not sure how a person who was used to a traditional tube amp rig could use both a Kemper and an Axe III Fx and not quickly come to the conclusion that it was far easier to obtain the sound they were looking for on the Axe III Fx.

Kemper has a VERY traditional layout. 4 pre efx slots, an amp module, and 4 post efx slots. Looks and routes like most tube amps with a pedal boards out there.

I will agree that the on-device editor is clunky if you want to do anything MORE advanced than basic editing; however, basic editing (on a Kemper) is about all most people need to get a sound they are looking for.

I hear you, but I can't agree with you on this point. Having extensively used both (I only own the Kemper, but have spent days on the Axe III Fx), I am readily willing to agree that the Fractal editor is light years more powerful and flexible than Kemper; however, if you are just trying to get a specific sound to cover a song, and you are not much of a tweaker (btw, that is the VAST majority of live players out there), the Kemper is just WAY easier to get the sound you are looking for. Here is the recipe I use:

1. Search the web for what amp efx combo was used on the original song
2. Search for a Kemper rig that has that amp (or an amp that is like that amp) on rig manager and audition it
3. Tweak the eq on the amp module to get the correct gain and tone for your guitar and speaker setup
4. Add the efx into the chain needed for that tone.

For MOST covers, all you need is a good amp sound, a good verb, and maybe a delay .... all of which Kemper provides with a very "Tube Amp Like" front interface.

In contrast, most tube amp / pedal board users would find the Axe III Fx edit interface daunting and alien.

 

[dean701]

The on-board UI for Kemper was the reason I left that ecosystem and the minimal routing functionality.

Having said that the software client is still my favorite of all time. Having all profiles accessible on a windows folder and being able to load any with a click is amazing. You don't need the device online to use the client either.

 

[ian_dissonance]

As strange as it is, between players I know, and other bands that I play with, I see more Kempers than anything else, followed by HX, and I know 1 guitar player who uses a QC, and a bass player that uses a QC.

I have seen only 2 Fractals on local stages, one was like, 7 years ago, the other, was a year ago.

HX Stomp/Helix/LT and FM3 are the most common for the shows we play, Kemper is a distant 3rd and I think I’ve seen 2-3 QC with touring acts. I know a bunch of people who own AxeFX racks, but they never take them out of the house.

 

[OneEng]

The newest Kemper computer interface is very simple and easy to use. But so is Axe Edit.

It's fairly simple to use, but only because I use it all the time. It is clear that Kemper is modeled (forgive the pun) after a traditional tube amp and pedalboard. If this is what you are used to, then the Kemper interface and GUI editor makes sense. Still, there are lots of things that are hidden here and there and don't follow with any known paradigm anyone would be used to.

 

[OneEng]

HX Stomp/Helix/LT and FM3 are the most common for the shows we play, Kemper is a distant 3rd and I think I’ve seen 2-3 QC with touring acts. I know a bunch of people who own AxeFX racks, but they never take them out of the house.

I think it depends on what kind of live shows we are talking about. For weekend warriors, generally you won't see as many high end solutions as many of these guys don't have the kind of money it takes to buy them.

For touring (or even higher end local bands), you will never see an HX Stomp/FM3 class device being used. I know of plenty of national acts that use Fractal. Never heard of one (that doesn't mean it doesn't exist of course) that use a Helix.

I agree that many of the guys I know that have an Axe III Fx play with them in their recording studios and they never see the light of day :).

 

[Lysander]

For touring (or even higher end local bands), you will never see an HX Stomp/FM3 class device being used. I know of plenty of national acts that use Fractal. Never heard of one (that doesn't mean it doesn't exist of course) that use a Helix.

Horseshit - sorry. I'll admit i haven't run into many FM3s, but i try to catch as many touring bands as i can when they visit town, and i regularly see Floor Helices, or boards with HX devices. In fact, it's normally either those or an AxeFX III stuck into a rack.

Last big act was Filter, ~5 months ago. Both guitar and bass straight into Helix Floors, and sounding incredible.

Same experience with Smashing Pumpkins, Rival Sons, Deftones, Devin Townsend and quite a few more.

 

[ian_dissonance]

I think it depends on what kind of live shows we are talking about. For weekend warriors, generally you won't see as many high end solutions as many of these guys don't have the kind of money it takes to buy them.

For touring (or even higher end local bands), you will never see an HX Stomp/FM3 class device being used. I know of plenty of national acts that use Fractal. Never heard of one (that doesn't mean it doesn't exist of course) that use a Helix.

I agree that many of the guys I know that have an Axe III Fx play with them in their recording studios and they never see the light of day :).

I’ve seen plenty internationally touring bands playing HX stuff over the last 10 years. I know it hurts the Fractal kids to know that a headliner might be able to use a Helix for their rig, but it happens quite a bit.

 

[Orvillain]

I've seen loads more bands using Helix than anything else.

 

[dean701]

I think it depends on what kind of live shows we are talking about. For weekend warriors, generally you won't see as many high end solutions as many of these guys don't have the kind of money it takes to buy them.

For touring (or even higher end local bands), you will never see an HX Stomp/FM3 class device being used. I know of plenty of national acts that use Fractal. Never heard of one (that doesn't mean it doesn't exist of course) that use a Helix.

I agree that many of the guys I know that have an Axe III Fx play with them in their recording studios and they never see the light of day :).

Richie Castellano of Blue Oyster Cult tours with a Helix. Now you know of one. :)

edit: and here's Steve Stevens' pedal board with an HX Effects.

 

[Jarick]

I see a mix of a lot of different stuff…for bigger bands there’s a lot of Fractal units (Metallica, Blink 182, Smashing Pumpkins). I haven’t seen as many QC’s or Helix but it’s likely just the bands I’m seeing. Still see a lot of tube amps and pedals though.

If I were gigging quite a bit I’d probably look at either Helix or FM9. I like the QC but it just feels a little fragile. It’s probably not, but the power supply is flimsy and I’d want a board for it to rest on and a screen protector. Both FM9 and Helix should be rugged enough to just put the board on the floor and go. QC is probably better on a bigger board or rack mounted.

Kemper I probably woudn’t mess with because it’s so profile dependent. Really good unit overall but I just prefer modeling devices as you can swap out cabs easier to fine tune the sound.

 

[Eagle]

As strange as it is, between players I know, and other bands that I play with, I see more Kempers than anything else, followed by HX, and I know 1 guitar player who uses a QC, and a bass player that uses a QC.

I have seen only 2 Fractals on local stages, one was like, 7 years ago, the other, was a year ago.

Yes “local” is the reason.

 

[Vic Winters]

I see a mix of a lot of different stuff…for bigger bands there’s a lot of Fractal units (Metallica, Blink 182, Smashing Pumpkins). I haven’t seen as many QC’s or Helix but it’s likely just the bands I’m seeing. Still see a lot of tube amps and pedals though.

Mark from Blink is using a QC. Tom uses Fractal.
Jeff from Pumpkins was using Helix for effects before his departure.

 

[Baba]

Yes “local” is the reason.

In all fairness, one of my best friends has an Axe III, and I've played it, and I'm sure there are countless others, "locally" who have Fractals, but for whatever reason, you don't see them in live rigs. They all seem to stay home.

 

[sashimi]

Maybe because a rack unit defeats a big advantage to going digital for a lot of people, which is to carry less stuff on stage.

 

[Digital Igloo]

Helix sounds too line 6...

Won't claim this has never been true, but if it were true today, it'd be measurable and repeatable. Too many 3rd-party shootouts have proven this false, even after accounting for YouTube compression.

However, when we perform double-blind listening tests, 100% of us can reliably call out two particular competitors; one because of its squirrels and other artifacts, and the other because it never sounds anything like the real amp—multiple EQ (and perhaps multi-band compression?) stages seem to be baked in in order to, I dunno—approximate what they believe their customers think the amp should sound like? It doesn't sound objectively bad per sé (especially if you love gacked-out producers going ham on a djent mix), but it sucks that you can't dial it out.

Cliff knows who I'm talking about; he's alluded to something similar.

I've seen loads more bands using Helix than anything else.

Yeah, I think some of these naysayers must only go to dad-friendly metal shows, where yes, Fractal is very common. Kemper still appears to be king in mainland Europe, and QC is appearing in more places, but Helix/HX is everywhere. It was all over Lollapalooza, which is decidedly non-friendly to dad-friendly metal, although Deftones played, who happened to be on Helix.

One particular company has seeded (given away) hundreds of their modeler to artists and influencers in the hopes of gaining traction. Not sure what the user contract said, but I'm guessing we'll see a bunch of those hundreds show up on Reverb once the no-resell date is up.



And this is purely anecdotal, but 5 of my top 10 favorite bands in the world are on Helix/HX (and I've heard rumors a 6th just switched over, but they're not touring this year).

 

[Vic Winters]

Won't claim this has never been true, but if it were true today, it'd be measurable and repeatable. Too many 3rd-party shootouts have proven this false, even after accounting for YouTube compression.

However, when we perform double-blind listening tests, 100% of us can reliably call out two particular competitors; one because of its squirrels and other artifacts, and the other because it never sounds anything like the real amp—multiple EQ (and perhaps multi-band compression?) stages seem to be baked in in order to, I dunno—approximate what they believe their customers think the amp should sound like? It doesn't sound objectively bad per sé (especially if you love gacked-out producers going ham on a djent mix), but it sucks that you can't dial it out.

Cliff knows who I'm talking about; he's alluded to something similar.

Yeah, I think some of these naysayers must only go to dad-friendly metal shows, where yes, Fractal is very common. Kemper still appears to be king in mainland Europe, and QC is appearing in more places, but Helix/HX is everywhere. It was all over Lollapalooza, which is decidedly non-friendly to dad-friendly metal, although Deftones played, who happened to be on Helix.

One particular company has seeded (given away) hundreds—perhaps thousands—of their modeler to artists and influencers in the hopes of gaining traction. Not sure what the user contract said, but I'm guessing we'll see a bunch of those hundreds/thousands show up on Reverb once the no-resell date is up.



And this is purely anecdotal, but 5 of my top 10 favorite bands in the world are on Helix/HX (and I've heard rumors a 6th just switched over, but they're not touring this year).

Is there any chance for some Deftones based amps/effects in an upcoming update?

 

[Digital Igloo]

Is there any chance for some Deftones based amps/effects in an upcoming update?

It's Around the Fur and White Pony-era, but I've been bugging the team to model the Marshall JMP-1 for years.

 

[Frodebro]

I think that the important part is that digital units are showing up more and more on stages everywhere. It doesn’t really matter which make or model (other than the “My dad can beat up your dad” thing).

 

[sashimi]

However, when we perform double-blind listening tests, 100% of us can reliably call out two particular competitors; one because of its squirrels and other artifacts, and the other because it never sounds anything like the real amp—multiple EQ (and perhaps multi-band compression?) stages seem to be baked in in order to, I dunno—approximate what they believe their customers think the amp should sound like? It doesn't sound objectively bad per sé (especially if you love gacked-out producers going ham on a djent mix), but it sucks that you can't dial it out.

Can we just name some names here? I want to know what modelers to hate without trying them all and forming my own opinions

 

[timbuck3]

Won't claim this has never been true, but if it were true today, it'd be measurable and repeatable. Too many 3rd-party shootouts have proven this false, even after accounting for YouTube compression.

However, when we perform double-blind listening tests, 100% of us can reliably call out two particular competitors; one because of its squirrels and other artifacts, and the other because it never sounds anything like the real amp—multiple EQ (and perhaps multi-band compression?) stages seem to be baked in in order to, I dunno—approximate what they believe their customers think the amp should sound like? It doesn't sound objectively bad per sé (especially if you love gacked-out producers going ham on a djent mix), but it sucks that you can't dial it out.

Cliff knows who I'm talking about; he's alluded to something similar.

Yeah, I think some of these naysayers must only go to dad-friendly metal shows, where yes, Fractal is very common. Kemper still appears to be king in mainland Europe, and QC is appearing in more places, but Helix/HX is everywhere. It was all over Lollapalooza, which is decidedly non-friendly to dad-friendly metal, although Deftones played, who happened to be on Helix.

One particular company has seeded (given away) hundreds of their modeler to artists and influencers in the hopes of gaining traction. Not sure what the user contract said, but I'm guessing we'll see a bunch of those hundreds show up on Reverb once the no-resell date is up.



And this is purely anecdotal, but 5 of my top 10 favorite bands in the world are on Helix/HX (and I've heard rumors a 6th just switched over, but they're not touring this year).

Don’t understand why you can’t just name the companies that had squirrels or artefacts in the paragraph he just wrote above. I mean who cares? Right? But it would be nice to have some context with which companies you’re talking about.