Video Games

[mbenigni]

Shadow of the Erdtree... I know I've kind of had a chip on my shoulder since I failed to... um... find it... on day one.

Still, it marks the first time I've ever been consistently bored with a FromSoft game. (Even Sekiro wasn't boring... just infuriating LOL.) I keep circling back to the conclusion that open worlds don't suit the soulslike genre very well. And I think making DLC for an open world game compounds things further. With DLC for previous, more linear games, From could at least make some approximations about typical levels of players' characters, etc. With Elden Ring, it's a free-for-all.

The whole thing starts with the question: do I start a new character and kill a bunch of hours, or do I load up my existing character and get to the new stuff I want to see. So I do the "reasonable thing" and I'm instantly overpowered. Every decision since then has been the same: find a new weapon, try it, upgrade it to max, try it, realize it's not as good as the weapon I'd been using previously... repeat. Ride around areas so vast that I get bored even on horseback. Kill everything. Maybe find a cave. Empty it. Repeat. Make an NPC say two new lines of unintelligible text.

Last night I got an NPC to randomly tell me that Miquela's barrier was gone, so I went back there and (you guessed it) killed everything, and got to a boss called the Putrescent Knight. The only way to get to him was to arbitrarily jump to what should have been my death, and then he instantly proved to be impossible. A quick Google search tells me he's an optional boss. The good news: Huzzah I didn't want to kill him anyway! The bad news: OK, if he isn't what I'm supposed to do next, then I'm right back to having no idea what to do next.

tl;dr:

 

[Devin]

Last night I got an NPC to randomly tell me that Miquela's barrier was gone,

Spoiler

Miquella's spell breaks automatically if you approach the Shadow Keep or if you cross the wooden bridge at Bonny Village; the game literally gives you two on screen prompts when this happens haha

For what it's worth there are only like 4 required bosses in the DLC

 

[laxu]

Shadow of the Erdtree... I know I've kind of had a chip on my shoulder since I failed to... um... find it... on day one.

Still, it marks the first time I've ever been consistently bored with a FromSoft game. (Even Sekiro wasn't boring... just infuriating LOL.) I keep circling back to the conclusion that open worlds don't suit the soulslike genre very well. And I think making DLC for an open world game compounds things further. With DLC for previous, more linear games, From could at least make some approximations about typical levels of players' characters, etc. With Elden Ring, it's a free-for-all.

The whole thing starts with the question: do I start a new character and kill a bunch of hours, or do I load up my existing character and get to the new stuff I want to see. So I do the "reasonable thing" and I'm instantly overpowered. Every decision since then has been the same: find a new weapon, try it, upgrade it to max, try it, realize it's not as good as the weapon I'd been using previously... repeat. Ride around areas so vast that I get bored even on horseback. Kill everything. Maybe find a cave. Empty it. Repeat. Make an NPC say two new lines of unintelligible text.

Last night I got an NPC to randomly tell me that Miquela's barrier was gone, so I went back there and (you guessed it) killed everything, and got to a boss called the Putrescent Knight. The only way to get to him was to arbitrarily jump to what should have been my death, and then he instantly proved to be impossible. A quick Google search tells me he's an optional boss. The good news: Huzzah I didn't want to kill him anyway! The bad news: OK, if he isn't what I'm supposed to do next, then I'm right back to having no idea what to do next.

tl;dr:

The intended route through the DLC is basically Belurat Tower -> Castle Ensis -> Shadow Keep -> whatever that green area at the top left corner of the map was called -> Enir-Ilim and literally everything else is optional, but worth exploring just to get the Scadutree Fragments to increase damage + damage negation, find some nifty items and fight a couple of cool optional bosses.

Putrescent Knight isn't too bad, he just has some very odd attack timings.

From's solution to DLC difficulty was the lazy Scadutree Blessing system which basically starts any character of any level at the bottom and your build doesn't matter that much.

 

[laxu]

As for difficulty... once you learn its language (mainly, when it wants you to block versus dodge) it can be pretty easy. My second playthrough I ran through at least 1/3 of the game in just a handful of hours without dying once. But then I encountered a boss that felt like a brick wall. There are definitely a couple of difficulty spikes.

It's a great addition to the genre IMO. I would have missed it if @Devin hadn't convinced me to give it another shot. It's relatively short, I suppose, but after Elden Ring + Shadow of the Erdtree, that might be refreshing. And with Game Pass, the price is right. :)

I got up to the Archbishop yesterday and it took me some tries to take him down. That was a very nice boss fight, though the visual design of the enemies in that area is basically "WoW leftovers".

I'm all for short, not every game needs to be 100+ hours.

 

[mbenigni]

Miquella's spell breaks automatically if you approach the Shadow Keep or if you cross the wooden bridge at Bonny Village; the game literally gives you two on screen prompts when this happens haha

I suffer from a rare medical condition that makes me blind to all things completely arbitrary.

 

[the swede]

I am soooo not playing SOTE haha. I’ve never seen my son swear and scream this much He went through ER like 8 times (oh how I remember his first… the cursing and aggression hahaha). But I think he made it through SOTE to. He said he needed a break from Elden Ring now.

Anyway. It’s a great game. I played it (not Sote) 1 time only…. Reeeal slooooow and made sure to be OP for most things. That was the only for me to handle that game. I do want to try all endings though… I choose the Ranni ending wich felt kinda… well… disconnected from everything. On the other hand I felt that the whole Ranni side story gameplay was the most interesting and elaborated.

 

[Devin]

The Frenzied Flame ending is the one true way

 

[the swede]

The Frenzied Flame ending is the one true way

Seems so :) my son harasses me about that all the time. He made me promise to do that ending next play through. Also calls me stupid for getting the frenzies then removing it he’s probably right! But yeah… will do it. Just need a break from my first 300 hours playthrough yeah… I took to much time looking at everything and everywhere.

 

[laxu]

I am soooo not playing SOTE haha. I’ve never seen my son swear and scream this much He went through ER like 8 times (oh how I remember his first… the cursing and aggression hahaha). But I think he made it through SOTE to. He said he needed a break from Elden Ring now.

If you got boss problems, I feel for you son. Got 99 Vigor but my Scadutree Blessing's only one.

 

[laxu]

Making good progress with Lies of P, I'm at the Barren Swamp. Still don't like the whole plot but the puppets are growing on me.

The game has some really nice bosses. If it wasn't for the annoyingly long run to the boss and a somewhat lengthy first phase, King of Puppets would've been great. Liked Victor a lot, though his second phase could have had more interesting moves.

Regular enemy variety is not great.

Don't really love most of the weapon options, I've been sticking to the Booster Glaive because it has such a good moveset especially with the charged heavy attack that moves the player forward a good amount, and the fable art is good too. I guess I need to try the handle with some other blades and see if that gets me something better since I got a bunch of new weapons recently.

Similarly the legion arms are just meh. I almost never use them because pulling out most of them takes enough time to not be able to avoid an attack, while the damage done is poor. The long range projectile one has been the most useful so far.

I think the game takes way too long to start dropping the better weapon upgrades materials, to the point you really needed to focus on one weapon instead of being able to fully try them out. Similarly the skill upgrade materials are given out in so small drops that you really have to go out of your way to fight optional bosses or mini-bosses. Legion arm upgrades are equally stingy.

Stingy economy overall is an issue with the game. You get enough money for levels, but enemies drop throwables too rarely and buying them costs too much so it's not worth using them regularly because you'd be constantly swapping item slots.

The developers of this have really played their Bloodborne, there's just so many similarities, some of the animations and enemy designs even seem like they're ripped out straight from BB. The level design is not as good and it never manages to quite go in the full horror direction tho.

 

[mbenigni]

Similarly the legion arms are just meh. I almost never use them because pulling out most of them takes enough time to not be able to avoid an attack, while the damage done is poor. The long range projectile one has been the most useful so far.

Overall I'd agree that the Legion Arm felt like something of an afterthought. However, I seem to recall the Aegis (shield) arm being a game-changer through at least one section of the game - almost to the extent of feeling like cheating. It's been too many months since I played and I can't recall any specifics, though.

 

[Devin]

Yeah I also thought the Aegis legion arm was really good

Only one I ever actually used tbh

 

[Aelred]

Shadow of the Erdtree certainly has raised some hackles by being so different to previous DLCs as extensions of the main game. A whole new upgrading system – including for Torrent and Summons? By finding items laying around and killing hippos?

Odd, to say the least. Lots of empty space with the occasional smithing stone to collect. I get why the extra +10/25 stones for new weapons. There’s only a few catacombs (some like them, some don’t) to find even with the Forges.

And yes, I have to concede that just throwing dragons onto the landscape is getting old now. Boss moves and camera get silly with some. I do a lot of random co-op and now have to think “If it’s Shadow, jump, if it’s main ER, roll” which can mess me up.

Using the new weapons, Ashes of War and spells against the old bosses not designed for them, and the lack of weapon/spell nerfing yet means they can be very effective and fun. A lot of them seem to be “trick” weapons that can be two-handed ala Bloodborne. They certainly needed to nerf the nuclear Spark Bottles. The new Talismans are interesting as are the Tears.

It almost feels as if it’s a really good “Soulslike” separate from ER, and wonder about replay value. Which is odd for a FROM game for me. Because I played “blind” I messed up almost every questline, so will go through again as a Sorcerer and maybe another. I’m still not sure if I can go through the DLC again without completing the main game, or if I have to go NG+ and get to Mohg again.

I’ll pass the weapons and stuff to my low level builds in the main game.

FROM have said that just because they made Elden Ring it doesn’t mean that Open World will be their focus forever. I can see why many people think Linear is better for these games, especially with this DLC.

A mixed bag indeed is Shadow.

 

[laxu]

Shadow of the Erdtree certainly has raised some hackles by being so different to previous DLCs as extensions of the main game. A whole new upgrading system – including for Torrent and Summons? By finding items laying around and killing hippos?

Yeah it was a terrible choice. Bloodborne or DS3 DLCs were scaled harder than the base game and that worked just fine to accommodate people going to it early, vs endgame. ER DLC basically puts you back to a starting level where your build doesn't really matter, but expects you to play with an expert's experience. Then you level up by finding those items which is a poor excuse for making players explore.

Odd, to say the least. Lots of empty space with the occasional smithing stone to collect. I get why the extra +10/25 stones for new weapons. There’s only a few catacombs (some like them, some don’t) to find even with the Forges.

The DLC would have been perfect as something you can enter in the middle of the game instead of being an endgame area. It almost assumes you have trawled through all the mines so you can buy upgrade items to try the new weapons.

And yes, I have to concede that just throwing dragons onto the landscape is getting old now. Boss moves and camera get silly with some. I do a lot of random co-op and now have to think “If it’s Shadow, jump, if it’s main ER, roll” which can mess me up.

It's even just the same dragon in a lot of places, instead of ones with different moves. Elden Ring overall has this issue of too large scope so they don't have enough content to populate the world, so you get those repeated Erdtree Avatars and Spirits, dragons etc.

It almost feels as if it’s a really good “Soulslike” separate from ER, and wonder about replay value. Which is odd for a FROM game for me. Because I played “blind” I messed up almost every questline, so will go through again as a Sorcerer and maybe another. I’m still not sure if I can go through the DLC again without completing the main game, or if I have to go NG+ and get to Mohg again.

If you are on PC, you can copy saves and then just respec those into new characters if you don't want to play through everything again. Obviously you'd need a character that has not done the DLC yet.

The questlines are particularly bad in the DLC because it's very easy to just miss parts of them. Some have NPC fights with summon signs in places that you could miss entirely if you simply entered the area through an alternative route the game allows you to use.

 

[laxu]

Played more Lies of P last night. I'm at the Corrupted Parade Master and feel like the game could wrap up already.

Really disliked the Monster of the swamp boss. Too big boss in a too small arena.

Added the Two Dragons Sword as my second main weapon next to the Boost Glaive. The Boost is still good for tanky enemies where you can charge attack them from a distance, while the Two Dragons are great for faster enemies and have a cool moveset. It's funny how many weapons are almost ripped straight from Bloodborne, like there's the pizza cutter, boom axe, scythe etc.

I don't like how they start to remove summon options for some of these bosses later in the game. That was a good way to make them easier if you just don't feel like trying to solo them.

The levels themselves have also started to favor tanky enemies too much.

 

[Devin]

They certainly needed to nerf the nuclear Spark Bottles.

Rolling Sparks glitch got patched about a week ago

I used it to speedrun my way back in to the DLC for a second time lmao; made it just in time before the nerf

 

[Aelred]

It's even just the same dragon in a lot of places, instead of ones with different moves. Elden Ring overall has this issue of too large scope so they don't have enough content to populate the world, so you get those repeated Erdtree Avatars and Spirits, dragons etc.

Very good point (as were your others). One Dragon Incantation too - and I didn't need to kill a dragon to get it! I guess there are 2 Bayle Incants to get - which is one reason for asking about restarting the DLC. No Walking Mausoleums to split Boss runes.

There is much I do like, but offset by so many odd choices and plain lazy resuse. The graphics are lovely, but the weather isn't as dynamic as the main game. Frantic over-the-top bossess with little background or a cut scene. A 3-phase boss instead of 2-phase - tricked ya!

All quite odd for a game that attracted millions of new players unfamiliar with previous titles, difficulty and playthroughs. What? You build a strong character by defeating enemies and collecting runes and just get hammered in this region until you find fragments on the ground?

The lore-miners seem very confused, fwiw. So am I, I guess.

It just "feels" peculiar from the main game, and after 2.5 years perhaps a tad underwhelming all things considered. Maybe there will be a patch or two, then finish. And we'll get nothing at all about their next project for the time being.

 

[laxu]

Very good point (as were your others). One Dragon Incantation too - and I didn't need to kill a dragon to get it! I guess there are 2 Bayle Incants to get - which is one reason for asking about restarting the DLC. No Walking Mausoleums to split Boss runes.

There are at least 3 coffins in the DLC that allow rememberance duplication. Easiest to find is at the Metyr Manus Cathedral backyard.

There is much I do like, but offset by so many odd choices and plain lazy resuse. The graphics are lovely, but the weather isn't as dynamic as the main game. Frantic over-the-top bossess with little background or a cut scene. A 3-phase boss instead of 2-phase - tricked ya!

All quite odd for a game that attracted millions of new players unfamiliar with previous titles, difficulty and playthroughs. What? You build a strong character by defeating enemies and collecting runes and just get hammered in this region until you find fragments on the ground?

The lore-miners seem very confused, fwiw. So am I, I guess.

It just "feels" peculiar from the main game, and after 2.5 years perhaps a tad underwhelming all things considered. Maybe there will be a patch or two, then finish. And we'll get nothing at all about their next project for the time being.

I think it's a pretty typical From DLC, apart from the upgrade system which is indeed just plain lazy.

It's basically a damage given/damage negation multiplier table which changes when you get blessings together. It would probably take no more than a few days to code that, and maybe a week to balance it and even then they got it wrong and had to adjust it afterwards.

Most of their DLCs have been significantly harder than the base game, and also separate areas from the main game. I guess they don't really want to do a DLC that organically expands areas from the main game for example.

 

[laxu]

Lies of P continues. I'm currently fighting Laxaxia The Complete and she is really kicking my ass. I barely got to phase 2 yesterday after a few tries and then got promptly wrecked. It's a really cool fight tho so I've tried soloing her, just need to figure out some better strategies.

The game is clearly starting to run into "we ran out of time" problems at this point of the game. The level design has gotten worse, they throw these big enemy gauntlets at you or several tanky enemies in a row. There's a couple of levels that could have been easily removed because they feel like nothing but padding.

 

[Devin]

There are at least 3 coffins in the DLC that allow rememberance duplication. Easiest to find is at the Metyr Manus Cathedral backyard.

You can also dupe the DLC remembrances at the base game mausoleums if you happen to need more