Uncle Larry speaks the truth!!

[ejecta]

I raised this question on another forum and it didn’t get a single reply-

I‘m curious if there’s a correlation between the people who don’t believe tone is in the fingers and the people who are constantly flipping gear trying to find the “perfect“ whatever.

If you’re on the side of ”Tone is not in the fingers”, how much gear have you flipped and are you content with what you currently have?

Same question goes for the “Tone is in the fingers” guys, how much have you flipped and are you currently content.


My own answer, I’m a tone is in the fingers guy, I’ve only sold 2 guitars in my entire life and my amp flipping was just going between the same two amps back and forth, for the most part. I’m quite content with the tones I get these days.

I believe tone is mostly in the hands and I don’t see gear flipping as contradictory to someone like myself who says tone is in the fingers because gear flipping isn’t singular in cause. Personally I like trying “new toys” just becuase im curious for multiples of reasons, so really I wasn’t chasing tone per se but that I like fiddling with gadgets. I’m sure if thought harder I could find other reasons outside “tone” but I’m being lazy. Even Buk today said in his video that he’s bought a lot of gear in the past due to boredom. I can relate.

From what I’ve seen there’s a lot of variables in the gear flipping scenario that have nothing to do with tone chasing.

 

[dk_ace]

I’ve actually sat down and tried this after it was argued on the last thread here.

Maybe it’s just me, but repeatedly picking a note starting at the bridge pickup and ending at the neck resulted in a negligible change in tone in comparison to what I can do with any other mechanical method of changing tone on the signal chain used. It changed, just nowhere near what a tone knob does.

I think you’re over simplifying it (I mentioned a lot more variables than the single one you are referring to). Maybe my guitars/pickups let more through than yours or something, but there’s a dramatic difference between picking over the fretboard above the neck pickup and right close to the bridge with lots of shades in between. I’d argue it changes far more than any common single tone knob but probably less than multiple tone knobs adjusted together.

I’d also argue you can’t achieve the same change with a tone knob. It’s a different sound/tonality, it isn’t as simple as more/less bass or Highs.

I’ll also add that I’m rarely thinking about this, these are things that people that know how to achieve a sound just subconsciously adjust to get what they want to hear. The only time I think about this stuff is if I’m rehearsing a part and it isn’t coming through the way I want it (meaning I’m then problem solving about how to get it to sound the way I want it to) or I record a clip of it and listen back to see if it’s what I want it to be and it isn’t.

D

 

[TSJMajesty]

I bet if you polled 100 average people, not musicians, just the type of people who listen to the radio, but couldn't tell you the name of a single famous guitarist, and you showed them a guitar player altering his "playing" only, then showed them a guitarist changing his rig setup, whether that be thru changing his amps, or BMT, or whatever, 80% of them would agree the greatest change to the tone was the ones who changed their rig. And in doing this poll, you would not give them a definition of the word "tone," but just ask them, which one did you perceive to have more change in their tone?

And if you think tone is in your hands, how much varied gear-guitars, effects, amps, etc.- do you own? If it's a lot, yet you can get all these varied tones with just your hands, then why?

 

[Fireproof]

Yeah, why do we even have The Gear Forum or The Gear Page? We all just need one amp! And then we can just use our fingers to sound different!

 

[Fireproof]

The answer, of course, is that tone is in BOTH - gear and fingers.

Right? Right?

 

[Bruce]

I think you’re over simplifying it (I mentioned a lot more variables than the single one you are referring to). Maybe my guitars/pickups let more through than yours or something, but there’s a dramatic difference between picking over the fretboard above the neck pickup and right close to the bridge with lots of shades in between. I’d argue it changes far more than any common single tone knob but probably less than multiple tone knobs adjusted together.

I’d also argue you can’t achieve the same change with a tone knob. It’s a different sound/tonality, it isn’t as simple as more/less bass or Highs.

I’ll also add that I’m rarely thinking about this, these are things that people that know how to achieve a sound just subconsciously adjust to get what they want to hear. The only time I think about this stuff is if I’m rehearsing a part and it isn’t coming through the way I want it (meaning I’m then problem solving about how to get it to sound the way I want it to) or I record a clip of it and listen back to see if it’s what I want it to be and it isn’t.

D

To this I'd say I've yet to sit down and learn a part and try to fix a tonal problem by picking it differently.

Maybe you have.

Everyone's experience is different.

 

[jellodog]

Yeah, why do we even have The Gear Forum or The Gear Page?

uh oh.

 

[Bruce]

The whole gear flipping equation is a little more complex, I think. There is a whole group of folks who want to try a lot of different gear but don't want to spend a ton of money. They keep flipping around the same couple of grand.

 

[Gearzilla]

I bet if you polled 100 average people, not musicians, just the type of people who listen to the radio, but couldn't tell you the name of a single famous guitarist, and you showed them a guitar player altering his "playing" only, then showed them a guitarist changing his rig setup, whether that be thru changing his amps, or BMT, or whatever, 80% of them would agree the greatest change to the tone was the ones who changed their rig. And in doing this poll, you would not give them a definition of the word "tone," but just ask them, which one did you perceive to have more change in their tone?

And if you think tone is in your hands, how much varied gear-guitars, effects, amps, etc.- do you own? It it's a lot, yet you can get all these varied tones with just your hands, then why?

 

[Gearzilla]

“Realize that tone comes from you​

This is a little existential, but I swear by it. The guitar is a tactile instrument. You’re using the flesh of your hands to interact with it, and regardless of everything else you use, the sound you make comes from you. Every guitarist sounds different, and that’s because every guitarist is different. That’s the beautiful thing about playing the instrument.”

—John Petrucci

 

[Fireproof]

/thread

 

[JiveTurkey]

I just re-realized I actually do have an Uncle Larry. I forgot about him because he's a religious nut I haven't talked to in 35+ years.

 

[Bruce]

“Realize that tone comes from you​

This is a little existential, but I swear by it. The guitar is a tactile instrument. You’re using the flesh of your hands to interact with it, and regardless of everything else you use, the sound you make comes from you. Every guitarist sounds different, and that’s because every guitarist is different. That’s the beautiful thing about playing the instrument.”

—John Petrucci

It’s a good way of looking at things and a chicken or the egg analogy. In this case, tone is in the brain. You don’t play a note before your brain signals your fingers. But then you don’t hear anything until your brain processes the sound. But then again you wouldn’t hear much if there was no speaker, either and everything else in between that a your guitar jack.

 

[Bruce]

I just re-realized I actually do have an Uncle Larry. I forgot about him because he's a religious nut I haven't talked to in 35+ years.

I seriously want to go to one of those churches where they either handle snakes or speak in tongues.

 

[JiveTurkey]

I seriously want to go to one of those churches where they either handle snakes or speak in tongues.

 

[Gearzilla]

 

[TSJMajesty]

“Realize that tone comes from you​

This is a little existential, but I swear by it. The guitar is a tactile instrument. You’re using the flesh of your hands to interact with it, and regardless of everything else you use, the sound you make comes from you. Every guitarist sounds different, and that’s because every guitarist is different. That’s the beautiful thing about playing the instrument.”

—John Petrucci

I don't disagree with this. My take on it is that you can only affect "Tone" by using your hands by a relatively small amount. Your gear affects the tone to a much larger degree.

To sound like another guitar player..., take John Petrucci as an example, since he's my favorite, and I have a very closely similar setup to what he has, yes, you have to cop the nuances of his playing style: His picking is amazingly accurate. But when I nail a 3-note-per-string run with that same accuracy (yes, it happens), it sounds just like him.

If I were to nail that same run using a marshall with an EOB tone, it wouldn't necessarily sound like him. It's only when I do it using a JPIIC model, a Majesty, plus nailing the technique. Yes, it is part of it, just not as big a part as some people claim.

If I played thru his rig, I'd sound like me because of my technical abilities. But I'd have his tone!

And yeah, JP would sound like JP thru any of y'alls rigs. But that's because of his technique and playing style!

And notice, JP never used the word "tone."

 

[Bruce]

If gassiness is next to godliness, I'd be up for sainthood by now.

 

[Gearzilla]

And notice, JP never used the word "tone."

It was literally his third word in the bolded text.

 

[TSJMajesty]

The answer, of course, is that tone is in BOTH - gear and fingers.

Right? Right?

No. I disagree, because I don't define tone as how a guitar sounds in one player's hands vs. another. I call that style, and/or technique.

Pick attack, Brain May using the edge of a coin, Lindsey Buckingham using his fingers, articulation, vibrato, legato, slides, etc... it's all techniques that make one sound unique. But the tone comes from the guitar he's using, what PU's it has, and what amp he's using, and how it's dialed in.

When I first played the Eruption factory preset on my Axe III, I was like, There it is: That VH I tone! To be able to actually play Eruption and make it sound like Eddie, I needed to practice my technique.