Uncle Larry speaks the truth!!

[Bruce]

Move a pick 1/2" vastly different. Change pick angle a few degrees fairly different, etc., Etc. Etc. Even using your hyper narrow definition of tone.

not in my experience, especially in comparison to what a tone knob does.

 

[Whizzinby]

I don't disagree with this. My take on it is that you can only affect "Tone" by using your hands by a relatively small amount. Your gear affects the tone to a much larger degree.

To sound like another guitar player..., take John Petrucci as an example, since he's my favorite, and I have a very closely similar setup to what he has, yes, you have to cop the nuances of his playing style: His picking is amazingly accurate. But when I nail a 3-note-per-string run with that same accuracy (yes, it happens), it sounds just like him.

If I were to nail that same run using a marshall with an EOB tone, it wouldn't necessarily sound like him. It's only when I do it using a JPIIC model, a Majesty, plus nailing the technique. Yes, it is part of it, just not as big a part as some people claim.

If I played thru his rig, I'd sound like me because of my technical abilities. But I'd have his tone!

And yeah, JP would sound like JP thru any of y'alls rigs. But that's because of his technique and playing style!

And notice, JP never used the word "tone."

100%. I land in much the same place as you in the “debate”. A player will always sound like himself because of his technique and style, but his tone (in the broader sense) is driven by his gear choices. (Fully accepting that technique and style does effect tone, but not to the degree it is often discussed in this topic)

 

[Stratzrus]

People have use Teles for Jazz forever.

I'm sure.

I just looked up who has used a Tele for Jazz and realized why Frisell was the only one I was familiar with.

All of the players listed here are white guys.

https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/guitar-amps-gizmos/71088-telecaster-jazz-players.html

I grew up listening to the Jazz that my mother and father played on their record players when growing up in inner city Philadelphia and all of them were African Americans. The Jazz I studied in college was mostly being done by horn players and pianists. When I finally started listening to Jazz guitar it was a mixture of traditional players like Wes Montgomery, Kenny Burrell, and George Benson. But I also listened to John McLaughlin, Larry Coryell, and Pat Metheny.

The first Jazz guitarist I was ever aware of was Jim Hall. My mother had a record he played on when I was around 10 or 11.

Long story short, none of those guys played Telecasters. I was frankly surprised, after listening to his music, to learn that Frisell played one.

So sure, people have used Teles for Jazz forever but I was unaware of them.

Edit: This was the album I heard Jim Hall on and was typical of the kind of records my mom and dad had. Hall played on Jimmy Giuffre's "The Train and the River".

 

[Bruce]

I'm sure.

I just looked up who has used a Tele for Jazz and realized why Frisell was the only one I was familiar with.

All of the players listed here are white guys.

https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/guitar-amps-gizmos/71088-telecaster-jazz-players.html

I grew up listening to the Jazz that my mother and father played on their record players when growing up in inner city Philadelphia and all of them were African Americans. The Jazz I studied in college was mostly being done by horn players and pianists. When I finally started listening to Jazz guitar it was a mixture of traditional players like Wes Montgomery, Kenny Burrell, and George Benson. But I also listened to John McLaughlin, Larry Coryell, and Pat Metheny.

The first Jazz guitarist I was ever aware of was Jim Hall. My mother had a record he played on when I was around 10 or 11.

Long story short, none of those guys played Telecasters. I was frankly surprised, after listening to his music, to learn that Frisell played one.

So sure, people have used Teles for Jazz forever but I was unaware of them.

THEE top jazz guy when he was in school around here played a strat. Go figure.

 

[Stratzrus]

THEE top jazz guy when he was in school around here played a strat. Go figure.

Yeah, you can play Jazz on anything.

We've gotten away from it but I was just saying, from a tone is in the fingers perspective, that on any given instrument, a Tele for example, touch can radically affect how you sound.

 

[Deadpan]

People have use Teles for Jazz forever.

Haha, I used a Strat with EMGs and a Floyd Rose in college improve!

 

[Stratzrus]

Haha, I used a Strat with EMGs and a Floyd Rose in college improve!

I built and used this when I was in college inprov but I was listening to McLaughlin and Pete Cosey, not Wes.

At 6'2" and 127 lbs. I was declared medically unfit to serve during the Vietnam war. That jacket weighed more than I did.

 

[jellodog]

I built and used this when I was in college inprov but I was listening to McLaughlin and Pete Cosey, not Wes.

At 6'2" and 127 lbs. I was declared medically unfit to serve during the Vietnam war. That jacket weighed more than I did.

Cool! I've always wondered what your profile photo was all about. Excellent photo and vibe.

 

[Eagle]

I built and used this when I was in college inprov but I was listening to McLaughlin and Pete Cosey, not Wes.

At 6'2" and 127 lbs. I was declared medically unfit to serve during the Vietnam war. That jacket weighed more than I did.

I love that .The wood makes no difference people will tell you that sounds exactly like a Les Paul.
The truth is it sounds like you but the guitar will either resonate favourably or not depending on ALL the parts.

 

[itchyfingers]

I built and used this when I was in college inprov but I was listening to McLaughlin and Pete Cosey, not Wes.

At 6'2" and 127 lbs. I was declared medically unfit to serve during the Vietnam war. That jacket weighed more than I did.

Bro, that jacket needs zero explanation. So cool. However, pls explain what is going on with that guitar! What is the outrigger for? Did you move half the tuners to the bottom of the headstock? How many guitars did you disassemble for this project? Why?

 

[Stratzrus]

Bro, that jacket needs zero explanation. So cool. However, pls explain what is going on with that guitar! What is the outrigger for? Did you move half the tuners to the bottom of the headstock? How many guitars did you disassemble for this project? Why?

I designed and built it for my instrument building class. I called it "The Travelaxe". The idea was to build a guitar that was collapsible for international travel.

The outrigger was so that I could control the position of the guitar with my right arm. Most guitars have a part of the body there. Without it the guitar swung around uncontrollably.

I did move the tuners. The idea was so that there would be more space between them making tuning onstage easier. Unfortunately it defeated the Fender in line string design. In retrospect I think it was the one mistake I made building the guitar.

No guitars were disassembled. I bought the neck, tuners, and humbucker at Manny's on 48th street. For the body I went to a furniture manufacturing company up the road from the college I was attending in Vermont in search of some native grown Vermont maple. When I explained to them why I was there they told me they didn't usually sell wood so they had to speak to their boss. Next thing I knew the owner of the company came up to me and asked me to explain what was going on.

I showed him a drawing of my design and he was intrigued by the project. He personally accompanied me and hand selected the blank for the body.

It turned out pretty well.

I took another class with the instrument building professor called "Acoustics" but during the first class I got bored because was really basic so I cut class the entire rest of the semester. As we approached the end of the year I realized I was going to fail so I showed up at the last class, late, and the professor was surprised to see me. I said to the professor "Do you mind if I teach the class?" Everyone in the class fell silent. He paused for a moment then handed me the piece of chalk in his hand and sat down.

My father was an electrical engineer and had an oscilloscope. I used the Travelaxe's ability to relocate the position of the humbucker and moved it between the neck and bridge plotting the frequency response at the different harmonic nodes. I presented my findings to the class along with images from the scope. It was a truly educational experience for me and provided the other students with some knowledge about string vibration and harmonics that they wouldn't have had otherwise.

The professor gave me an A for the semester. I really dodged a bullet on that one.

 

[Stratzrus]

Cool! I've always wondered what your profile photo was all about. Excellent photo and vibe.

Thanks!

Pretty obviously I was a big Hendrix fan and the concept behind the photo was a tribute to this photo of Hendrix. Not an exact copy but the idea was to use the shadow as a part of the graphic design.

 

[jellodog]

@Stratzrus I did actually get a Hendrix vibe from it, but it may have been more from your awesome hat and the vintage look, than the shadow.

 

[PatF]

A famous tone example is that open G chord before the vocals on VH Mean Street.
If Alex had to punch that chord in because Ed was out getting smokes, would the tone be the same?
I don't think so.

 

[TSJMajesty]

A famous tone example is that open G chord before the vocals on VH Mean Street.
If Alex had to punch that chord in because Ed was out getting smokes, would the tone be the same?
I don't think so.

I know a drummer that can handle an open G chord.

 

[PatF]

Touch is a part of a tone. So gear and fingers should be considered inseparable. Generally speaking.

 

[andergtr]

“99% of tone is in the hands” is an argument as old as the guitar forums but when one of Nashville’s top session guys says it….. there’s some weight to it. I’ve personally practically had the exact same experience he described with a guitar, amp, and cab and two of my guitar playing buddies… the tone changed when each one of us took a turn and we were all pretty much at the same level of musicianship and same pick so those factors weren’t at play.

yep. i saw michael thompson at the defunct la ve lee in studio city. he switched a few guitars that were wildly different, and no matter what, he sounded pretty much the same. his hands and fingers get such a warm, fat sound.