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I also get this struggle, 1000%
Cheap light tube amp as modeller power amp?
- Thread starter Sedaxel
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Elric
Roadie
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Cheap light Tube Amp == POS Tube Amp. Why would you want to introduce garbage into your signal chain?
I’d say Fryette PS2 is the cheapest compact viable dedicated tube power amp to use as a back end for digital rig. Anything less and you are better off with an SS amp; where ‘inexpensive’ does not automatically mean ‘sh*tty’.
If you are willing to deal with the bulk of a head, there are other options there, but at that point you are just using a traditional rig w a digital processor in 4CM.
I’d say Fryette PS2 is the cheapest compact viable dedicated tube power amp to use as a back end for digital rig. Anything less and you are better off with an SS amp; where ‘inexpensive’ does not automatically mean ‘sh*tty’.
If you are willing to deal with the bulk of a head, there are other options there, but at that point you are just using a traditional rig w a digital processor in 4CM.
Last edited:
AutomationBias
Roadie
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It has the added benefit of being a kick-ass reactive load box for your tube amps.
Does it?
I think that not always.
Some years ago I used to gig with a Peavey Valveking 20 micro head paired to a lightweight cab (a matrix neolight). That little tube head costed 253€... Yeah, not much later it doubled its price. That sounded great, with a Zoom G5n trough the return of the Peavey.
I don't know, mate, but I don't think that all cheap amps sound horrible. So even less half the amp (just the power section).
Will they sound like a MkIIc+? Obviously not. Just the same as "name a guitar speaker here" is not going to sound like an EVM12L (well, that's just a personal opinion).
AFKAEjay(retired)
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I agree…in the higher segment I’ve used mesa and Marshall powersections…both poweramps as well as returns…but I equally liked the peavey valveking, Bogner alchemist, fender bassbreaker…all perfectly fine.
Laney studio IRT..if 15w is enough for you…highly recommended. Same for fender superchamp…you buy those for 300,-..spend 100,- to add a poweramp input…new speaker…and you got a fantastic solution. (If small works for what you want…works great in a mix when you don’t do chuggachugga)
Seems to me…in many cases the return goes straight into the poweramp…and there is no such thing as “neutral poweramps”…most of them are. (Though most 90s mesa poweramps admittedly come with low cuts)
I find that while I can find a good sound that works from modeler into a tube amp fx return, it's just that one sound. It's fine if that's all you need, but when switching to a different amp model it still sounds very similar due to running into the same power amp and speaker cabinet. Id like to try running into tube power amp return an then into fr speakers. I think guitar speakers add too much color.
For models I prefer clean power. One of these days I'd like to try one into a clean hifi tube system and then into clean FR speakers.
For models I prefer clean power. One of these days I'd like to try one into a clean hifi tube system and then into clean FR speakers.
Leperclown
Newbie
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Hi all,
I have used a Carvin TS100 stereo tube power amp to power various modellers (AA3, Eleven Rack, Boss GT 6, 8, 10 & 1000, Kemper Power Rack) for many years with great results.
Cheers
Paul
I have used a Carvin TS100 stereo tube power amp to power various modellers (AA3, Eleven Rack, Boss GT 6, 8, 10 & 1000, Kemper Power Rack) for many years with great results.
- Rack mounted, so it's easy to handle
- Relatively light-ish (for a 100w tube amp)
- Can run either EL34 or 6L6 tubes (or both)
- With 6L6 tubes, it runs very clean, but with real power tube warmth (one of its suggested use cases is as a HiFi power amp)
- Can run either stereo (2 x 50) or bridged (1 x 100). BTW, stereo as a stage monitor (2 x 12 cab) is self-obsessed, but big and glorious!
- It is loud as hell, if you wish
- I have had this amp for 10 years (?) without any problems (I have pulled it apart many times to change / swap tubes and check / adjust bias)
- There appear to be a few around for sale
- As a back up, I carry two tiny TC Electronics BAM 200's, which I have never had to use.
- I'm currently thinking that a Friedman IRX (maybe in the loop of the GT1000) might sit very well with this amp
Cheers
Paul
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Didnt fender just solve this issue on TMP?
Another nod to the Fryette PS2 as a worthwhile power amp, but it is expensive.
Have you tried running into a Seymour Duncan Powerstage to see how it sounds? I just saw a Megadeth rig rundown and they are using those with their QCs.
Another option you could consider is a Tech 21 Power Engine. It isn’t exactly flat, but it has EQ controls to tailor your sound and can get loud enough for decent size stages. I used to own one and pair it with a Boss GT-8 for good results.
Another option might be one of the older Atomic Amplifiers that had tubes in them. They were quite well reputed.
Other usual suspects are the Matrix Neolight cabs and the Atomic CLRs.
Have you tried running into a Seymour Duncan Powerstage to see how it sounds? I just saw a Megadeth rig rundown and they are using those with their QCs.
Another option you could consider is a Tech 21 Power Engine. It isn’t exactly flat, but it has EQ controls to tailor your sound and can get loud enough for decent size stages. I used to own one and pair it with a Boss GT-8 for good results.
Another option might be one of the older Atomic Amplifiers that had tubes in them. They were quite well reputed.
Other usual suspects are the Matrix Neolight cabs and the Atomic CLRs.
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I can't just run my AC30 preset into a tube power amp and expect the magic. I'll either double up on power amp and live in fart city, or switch to modeled preamp and loose all the juice because the cranked power amp sim goes away.
Now running that full amp sim into SS power amp section and knowing your EQ..
Now running that full amp sim into SS power amp section and knowing your EQ..
AFKAEjay(retired)
Roadie
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Why would that be the result?
IME difference between SS and tube power is very subtle while operated within headroom.
At conversation level, I can’t even tell the difference. (Did controlled/recorded blindest yadydayadyda)
Remember…tubes are also popular on hifi fora
Ime at a gig hawover, their is noticeable difference, although hard to quantify…all I know is that 9/10 I used SS..I wasn’t happy with my sound. Highs get nasty quick, stiff feel. To my ears, ss start to mess up very early on the volume travel. Prob tubes amps also…but in a more pleasant way. And I’m talking 50 seater jazz clubs with very lighthanded drummers running 180w of SS power…should be plenty.
In my mancave I use a cheap 100w Harley Benton poweramp…perfectly happy there…sounds great. So I’m not married to a tube
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It just has been IME. Idk if it's really the doubling up on power amp/power amp sim or impedance curves but when the preset is pushing the modeled poweramp past its breakup point, inserting that into a tube power amp hasn't been pleasant.
dronerstone
Shredder
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Unpopular opinion, since it's not a tube amp, but I love my Katana 100 MK2 head for just that.
Analog preamp or Helix Floor going straight into the power amp input (not "fx return", to be clear), both sound as amp-like as I'd possibly ever need (using the Helix necessitates the Global EQ to cut excess treble though).
Solid-state Class AB, more power than I'd ever need (thus loads of headroom), not pricey at all on the used market, and if it goes belly-up, which I deem rather unlikely, replacement is easy and affordable.
Analog preamp or Helix Floor going straight into the power amp input (not "fx return", to be clear), both sound as amp-like as I'd possibly ever need (using the Helix necessitates the Global EQ to cut excess treble though).
Solid-state Class AB, more power than I'd ever need (thus loads of headroom), not pricey at all on the used market, and if it goes belly-up, which I deem rather unlikely, replacement is easy and affordable.
Yeah, lots of good comments.
Just clarify one thing: my amp is 16-18kg, so it's already a great rig. It's just because of my recent back problems that I'm exploring a lighter solution. As a rough number, I think max 10kg could be the target.
That excludes the Power Engine or things like that. Actually, it excludes almost everything but a loud enough, light combo. That's why I think in little tube amps (15W Ideal, since I've successfully tested 20W amps in my use case).
A good "FRFR" is already in that weight. Mine is lighter, but it's also massive compromised by an 8" size. A bigger one will be on 10kg or more.
The magic of low powered tube power amps is what makes possible to go light with loudness enough... Or maybe not? That's the discussion. Many of you are giving very interesting views of pros and cons.
Just clarify one thing: my amp is 16-18kg, so it's already a great rig. It's just because of my recent back problems that I'm exploring a lighter solution. As a rough number, I think max 10kg could be the target.
That excludes the Power Engine or things like that. Actually, it excludes almost everything but a loud enough, light combo. That's why I think in little tube amps (15W Ideal, since I've successfully tested 20W amps in my use case).
A good "FRFR" is already in that weight. Mine is lighter, but it's also massive compromised by an 8" size. A bigger one will be on 10kg or more.
The magic of low powered tube power amps is what makes possible to go light with loudness enough... Or maybe not? That's the discussion. Many of you are giving very interesting views of pros and cons.
dronerstone
Shredder
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Depending on your choice of style and bandmates, 15-20W might not be enough.
I used an Ampeg GVT-Series head (15W all-tube) once, with a harder-hitting drummer, and even though I played a very efficient cab and loud humbuckers, the amp was turned up all they way, fizzed out really bad, and couldn't anywhere near keep up with the volume.
I personally would consider 50W (tube) at least, which is why 100W solid-state is very convenient, imho.
That said, I have no experience with Class D amps. They might need to be above 100W to really "thump".
I've been gigging my 20W Boogie for 7 years now.
It's more than enough for my band. Usually the master is in 3.5/10. Never ever went over 4/10.
dronerstone
Shredder
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Wow! Probably a much "bigger" 20W than the Ampeg's 15W then.
Don't think so. My band mate gigged an Orange 15W with the same result. And several gigs with the same boogie as me. And he's the lead guitarist. Now he swapped to a MKII, but just for the tone and feel, not for loudness.
That said, our band gigs only in theaters and good venues, and we're not a loud band (a Mike Oldfield tribute band). We only need our gear to be loud enough for monitoring purposes (without losing some cranked up tone, but nothing crazy). Maybe this gear wouldn't be enough in more loud genres or environments.
Side note... Both the Peavey 20 micro head and the Boogie are loud as hell when cranked. 20W in tube power are really loud.
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