TMP Pro has *least* Aliasing ....... Helix and FM9 equally bad ..... The Video "proves" it :)

Lysander said:
What amazes me is that even if you're deaf one can clearly see the aliasing performance on his own spectrum graphs. The TMP aliasing artifacts are 8 to 10 dB (!!!) louder than Helix/FM3, and over a much wider band.

Nothing against Doug, for real, but a YouTuber concerned with quality would've already taken that video down.



In that same vein, i have nothing against the TMP. Just don't present me rubbish as scientific facts.
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In his defence he used the test provided to him by No talk guitars
Aka Jean Bloomberg aka 17 other aliases who has been a PITA about aliasing and latency since 2005
 
I learned a new word! :guiness
OrganicZed said:
Doug commented over at TOP along the lines that he finds the tones available from all of the top modeling platforms (TMP included as one of the top modelers) to be indistinguishable tonally. He likes Fractal stuff and the versatility that it offers, but the menu diving and UI are quite cumbersome especially in comparison to the TMP. He said that since getting the TMP he essentially only turns on the Helix floor and FM9 for comparison videos and he spends most of his time playing the TMP.

While I fundamentally disagree with Doug's assessment that they all sound the same, I can see why some people would prefer the TMP over the Fractal if spending time learning a device is a turn off and they don't hear any differences in the tones. The fact that you have to roll your own when it comes to many standard effect types, for example, make FAS products more challenging to use than the plug and play setup of the likes of Helix and TMP. With the TMP you don't need to deep dive into forum posts and manuals to learn the ins and outs of the unit. Anyone familiar with using a standard guitar rig could likely build a preset in minutes and be up and running.

I think that Doug genuinely prefers the TMP and is not just shilling. The extra clicks that the TMP vs Fractal content garners is a motivating factor in churning out the content, but I don't think that is the main factor in his apparent shift in gear camp allegiance.

This video is a demonstration that he does not know how to properly measure aliasing nor how to interpret the results of the tests that he preformed.
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This might sound terrible; but really, it's a tall order making FAS videos with players like Leon and Cordy out there. What are you going to show us that those two aren't already on top of having RIDICULOUS chops. TPM is probably a much better fit for the YTr in question.
 
JiveTurkey said:
This might sound terrible; but really, it's a tall order making FAS videos with players like Leon and Cordy out there.
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Not really (even if it certainly seems like at first glance).
I'm sure many people would absolutely like to see some equipment videos coming from folks not just making "everything sound great" but from some rather averagely talented musos instead. Because in case these folks manage to coax nice sounds out of whatever it is, most other folks will be able to as well.
Same goes for technical aspects. You don't need to be a deep diving tech nerd, things explained/explored in laymen's terms might even be the better thing for many other laymen (hence the majority of users) quite often.

The moment it's getting really rough is when you're of the "will make everything sound bad" crowd. Or when even a technically less interested person such as me is able to instantly detect the horrendous flaws in whatever it might be. Or when you just don't know how to pull off any kind of demonstration for a whole variety of reasons. Quite unfortunately, our good guy here checks all these boxes.
And as said before: Yes, he should have any right to continue recording as many equipment videos as he likes, I'd be the first person to defend these rights. But he should be able to deal with the response.
 
FractalAudio said:
The best way to test aliasing in a modeler is to inject a high-frequency sine wave. Start with something like 15 KHz. Aliasing will manifest as a tone BELOW that and the overtones will be beyond the audible range.

Then slowly change the frequency. Move it up or down a bit and listen as the aliases change frequency and amplitude.

What I do is slowly sweep from 8-12 KHz or so and use the peak-hold function on my spectrum analyzer. The overtones are then 16 KHz and up and are therefore nearly inaudible. You will see and hear the aliasing as tones below 8 KHz. With the peak-hold function active you can then determine what I call the "fundamental-to-peak-alias-ratio".

I did just such a test about a month ago. Here are the results:

View attachment 14740

The amp model is the 5153. The green trace is the Axe-Fx. Those little spikes are virtual power supply hum (120 Hz and 180 Hz). The fundamental-to-peak-alias ratio is about 75 dB. For the other device the ratio is about 30 dB. Designers should aim for at least 50 dB. 60 dB or greater being optimal.

Anyone with a signal generator can easily test this themselves. I fail to see how anyone could come to the same conclusion as the person in the video did.
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Really appreciate you taking the time to post these insights. I learn a ton from these things!

Sascha Franck said:
Not really (even if it certainly seems like at first glance).
I'm sure many people would absolutely like to see some equipment videos coming from folks not just making "everything sound great" but from some rather averagely talented musos instead. Because in case these folks manage to coax nice sounds out of whatever it is, most other folks will be able to as well.
Same goes for technical aspects. You don't need to be a deep diving tech nerd, things explained/explored in laymen's terms might even be the better thing for many other laymen (hence the majority of users) quite often.

The moment it's getting really rough is when you're of the "will make everything sound bad" crowd. Or when even a technically less interested person such as me is able to instantly detect the horrendous flaws in whatever it might be. Or when you just don't know how to pull off any kind of demonstration for a whole variety of reasons. Quite unfortunately, our good guy here checks all these boxes.
And as said before: Yes, he should have any right to continue recording as many equipment videos as he likes, I'd be the first person to defend these rights. But he should be able to deal with the response.
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Agreed. I wish I had the time and energy to do videos. I'm a thoroughly mediocre guitarist but it would be fun. On the flip side it seems like yet another thing that you can get burned out on.

There's a poster on TGP called "X-Mann" and he does a lot of cool video clips of playing. Not a pro like Leon but he's really passionate, plays out a ton, and has some sweet gear.
 
I thought he was a somewhat goofy dude, but DID have some interesting info about the nuts and bolts of Fractal stuff, like going over the input level thing, etc.
But his doubling down on the TMP oddities without removing his fingers from his ears has caused me to just dismiss him entirely. His denial is so severe that I've got to believe that either A. he values clicks more than anything else and/or B. he's somehow receiving compensation from Fender.
 
paisleywookiee said:
I thought he was a somewhat goofy dude, but DID have some interesting info about the nuts and bolts of Fractal stuff, like going over the input level thing, etc.
But his doubling down on the TMP oddities without removing his fingers from his ears has caused me to just dismiss him entirely. His denial is so severe that I've got to believe that either A. he values clicks more than anything else and/or B. he's somehow receiving compensation from Fender.
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In a nutshell.

He lacks self confidence. Same as anyone else who can’t admit a mistake, and doubles down when they’re incorrect.
 
Jarick said:
There's a poster on TGP called "X-Mann" and he does a lot of cool video clips of playing. Not a pro like Leon but he's really passionate, plays out a ton, and has some sweet gear.
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I absolutely remember him. Has been one of the earlier Amplifirebox adopters, and while his playing isn't exactly my style, it (along with some other demos) was good enough to get me buying one as well.
 
Sascha Franck said:
I absolutely remember him. Has been one of the earlier Amplifirebox adopters, and while his playing isn't exactly my style, it (along with some other demos) was good enough to get me buying one as well.
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He's a great guy too through DM's and everything. Relentlessly positive. He moved over to Fractal gear for a while and I think he's mostly NDSP now. But more than anything he has a collection of really nice shredder guitars!
 
Jarick said:
Really appreciate you taking the time to post these insights. I learn a ton from these things!



Agreed. I wish I had the time and energy to do videos. I'm a thoroughly mediocre guitarist but it would be fun. On the flip side it seems like yet another thing that you can get burned out on.

There's a poster on TGP called "X-Mann" and he does a lot of cool video clips of playing. Not a pro like Leon but he's really passionate, plays out a ton, and has some sweet gear.
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I've always liked that dude, because he seems to like to try different things, he gets excited about it/new tech, but isn't a dick about it. Sure, he'll change directions, but doesn't everyone?
 
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