TMP Pro has *least* Aliasing ....... Helix and FM9 equally bad ..... The Video "proves" it :)

I'm doing a live reaction video right now and having trouble getting aliasing from the helix uber...I don't even have a cab up for a LPF

Edit: Swedish chainsaw helped make it obvious
 
If you are looking to do a test on a subject, make sure your conclusions are correct and you know what you are doing. Being "first to make a video of this currently controversial topic" is a terrible approach. He could have simply asked on forums "hey I'm making a video on this, how do I correctly measure aliasing and am I understanding this right?"
 
The best way to test aliasing in a modeler is to inject a high-frequency sine wave. Start with something like 15 KHz. Aliasing will manifest as a tone BELOW that and the overtones will be beyond the audible range.

Then slowly change the frequency. Move it up or down a bit and listen as the aliases change frequency and amplitude.

What I do is slowly sweep from 8-12 KHz or so and use the peak-hold function on my spectrum analyzer. The overtones are then 16 KHz and up and are therefore nearly inaudible. You will see and hear the aliasing as tones below 8 KHz. With the peak-hold function active you can then determine what I call the "fundamental-to-peak-alias-ratio".

I did just such a test about a month ago. Here are the results:

5153_Aliasing_Brand_F_vs_AxeFx3.PNG


The amp model is the 5153. The green trace is the Axe-Fx. Those little spikes are virtual power supply hum (120 Hz and 180 Hz). The fundamental-to-peak-alias ratio is about 75 dB. For the other device the ratio is about 30 dB. Designers should aim for at least 50 dB. 60 dB or greater being optimal.

Anyone with a signal generator can easily test this themselves. I fail to see how anyone could come to the same conclusion as the person in the video did.
 
I suspect that @Doug B found his TMP videos were getting more traction than his Fractal videos and as I’d expect any YouTuber to do, started catering to that audience more. I don’t see a problem with that at all, what I found to be rather distasteful was the obvious flip from ”Fractal land is great” to undermining it to prop up the TMP.

The example on the top of my head was comparing some of the Fender models to Fractal’s and something along the lines of “The Fender models come with reverb and a cab, the Fractal does not”, which while true, does nothing to explain that the two units go about it differently and to those who aren’t aware of how a Fractal works, it leaves an ambiguous question of “Well, where does it get Reverb from then?”

I’m definitely curious to see how this whole alias video turns out. It is not doing anyone any favors, that’s for sure.
 
DrewJD82 said:
I’m definitely curious to see how this whole alias video turns out. It is not doing anyone any favors, that’s for sure.
Click to expand...
It's doing Doug favors. Whether he's correct or incorrect (and call me crazy, but I'll put my money on Cliff's rebuttal), the ensuing arguments in the comments section all amount to clicks on his YouTube ledger.
 
Doug commented over at TOP along the lines that he finds the tones available from all of the top modeling platforms (TMP included as one of the top modelers) to be indistinguishable tonally. He likes Fractal stuff and the versatility that it offers, but the menu diving and UI are quite cumbersome especially in comparison to the TMP. He said that since getting the TMP he essentially only turns on the Helix floor and FM9 for comparison videos and he spends most of his time playing the TMP.

While I fundamentally disagree with Doug's assessment that they all sound the same, I can see why some people would prefer the TMP over the Fractal if spending time learning a device is a turn off and they don't hear any differences in the tones. The fact that you have to roll your own when it comes to many standard effect types, for example, make FAS products more challenging to use than the plug and play setup of the likes of Helix and TMP. With the TMP you don't need to deep dive into forum posts and manuals to learn the ins and outs of the unit. Anyone familiar with using a standard guitar rig could likely build a preset in minutes and be up and running.

I think that Doug genuinely prefers the TMP and is not just shilling. The extra clicks that the TMP vs Fractal content garners is a motivating factor in churning out the content, but I don't think that is the main factor in his apparent shift in gear camp allegiance.

This video is a demonstration that he does not know how to properly measure aliasing nor how to interpret the results of the tests that he preformed.
 
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FractalAudio said:
I fail to see how anyone could come to the same conclusion as the person in the video did.
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What amazes me is that even if you're deaf one can clearly see the aliasing performance on his own spectrum graphs. The TMP aliasing artifacts are 8 to 10 dB (!!!) louder than Helix/FM3, and over a much wider band.

Nothing against Doug, for real, but a YouTuber concerned with quality would've already taken that video down.

OrganicZed said:
I think that Doug genuinely prefers the TMP and is not just shilling. The extra clicks that the TMP vs Fractal content garners is a motivating factor in churning out the content, but I don't think that is the main factor in his apparent shift in gear camp allegiance.
Click to expand...

In that same vein, i have nothing against the TMP. Just don't present me rubbish as scientific facts.
 
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OrganicZed said:
Doug commented over at TOP along the lines that he finds the tones available from all of the top modeling platforms (TMP included as one of the top modelers) to be indistinguishable tonally. He likes Fractal stuff and the versatility that it offers, but the menu diving and UI are quite cumbersome especially in comparison to the TMP. He said that since getting the TMP he essentially only turns on the Helix floor and FM9 for comparison videos and he spends most of his time playing the TMP.

While I fundamentally disagree with Doug's assessment that they all sound the same, I can see why some people would prefer the TMP over the Fractal if spending time learning a device is a turn off and they don't hear any differences in the tones. The fact that you have to roll your own when it comes to many standard effect types, for example, make FAS products more challenging to use than the plug and play setup of the likes of Helix and TMP. With the TMP you don't need to deep dive into forum posts and manuals to learn the ins and outs of the unit. Anyone familiar with using a standard guitar rig could likely build a preset in minutes and be up and running.

I think that Doug genuinely prefers the TMP and is not just shilling. The extra clicks that the TMP vs Fractal content garners is a motivating factor in churning out the content, but I don't think that is the main factor in his apparent shift in gear camp allegiance.

This video is a demonstration that he does not know how to properly measure aliasing nor how to interpret the results of the tests that he preformed.
Click to expand...
I don't think the modelers are that different for building basic presets or getting good sounds.

Many of Fractal's effects need nothing more than a little mix adjustment to sound great and the amp models sound as good as the real amp would with knobs at noon. The cab defaults could be better, I mean who wants to start with the 1x4 Pignose speaker for IRs or 1x8 Tweed for Dyna-Cabs?

While the onboard user interface on a TMP, Helix or QC is going to be faster to work with, once you learn to use one of these units well the others won't be that much more difficult to operate. I don't feel you need to dive into mysteries of the manuals or Wiki on any of them if you don't want to, as long as you are familiar with the basic operation concepts.

I can totally understand preferring the user experience on one or the other - I had to ponder hard whether to stick with QC, Helix or FM3 when I had all three because they had their own pros and cons. For me Helix Floor went out of the running due to its physical size as I wanted a more desktop friendly unit and HX Stomp was not it because it gimped the Helix onboard UI. QC got sold because it was easy to do since it was brand new at the time, and I didn't want to bank on a product that still required improvements. The FM3 was a solid, feature packed, great sounding unit already so I kept that despite lamenting its onboard user interface.
 
Anyone knows whether "foreign shame" is the proper english translation for the german "Fremdscham"?
It's when you watch something (or listen to something, whatever) and it makes yourself blush because it's so embarrassing for the presenter.
With this guy's videos, my Fremdscham is as strong as it gets.
 
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