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The very first rear-wheel drive.
The Digital Doubt
- Thread starter DrewJD82
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The very first rear-wheel drive.
mercifulfuzziness
Shredder
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I think he meant the trap is that you keep buying different amps and pedals.
Sascha Franck
Rock Star
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Yeah - but in the end, IMO everything inspiring you to play more (or allow you to get into playing "condition" quicker) is a good investment. Apart from a few things I may really need (which are very few since ages already), pretty much all my investments are following this "rule". And it seems to work quite well, almost everything I bought throughout the last, say, decade, has met one or the other criterium.
However, it often seems to be almost the other way around, as in people buying more stuff than they could ever really make good use of. Up to the point were buying stuff and/or fantasizing about it becomes its own thing (I have been a victim of that as well, but I seem to have gotten rid of it for the most part). Just so that nobody gets me wrong, I'm absolutely fine with people doing so, but it's becoming something different from optimizing your guitar playing workflow, it's rather a stamp collecting thing (which, as said, is fine).
Which isn't really that much of a trap depending on where you live and what you buy in case you're sort of disciplined. As in buying 2nd hand as well and selling things you don't need. Doesn't even cost too much money once you have a certain stock to juggle around with.
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jay mitchell
Roadie
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What does "forgiving" even mean? Correcting clams? Fixing bad time or intonation?
Eagle
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Ever owned a Bad cat? Or a Matchless. Or the feel difference between a typical Marshall and Friedman. If you haven’t experienced it you won’t know what I’m referring too.
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I think tube amps can be a bit more "peaky" (dynamic) until you get them to a certain volume.
I notice this when using clean presets on a modeler through a FR cab. The tone is way more contained and leveled off somewhat, whereas a clean tube amp in the room at similar volume is much more dynamic and touchy for better or worse. It's dying to be turned up. I think when using distortion the line between the two becomes relative because the range is narrowed and compressed. Just ime.
mercifulfuzziness
Shredder
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Agreed. And since I killed of reverb I don’t even miss it.
Eagle
Rock Star
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This
.It’s the main reason that digital can’t do amp in the room and may never be able to unless fr fr gets a lot better in this area.
Sascha Franck
Rock Star
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Graphs wouldn't lie.
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Yeah, and I'm not dissing modeler into FR, it's actually more comfortable to my ears in the room because it's less peaky. I can even turn the relative volume up higher because it's balanced.This
It’s the main reason that digital can’t do amp in the room and may never be able to unless fr fr gets a lot better in this area.
mercifulfuzziness
Shredder
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But, I will say that turning off the speaker IR and just running into the FR directly gives a bit more range, and I like that too. The FR10 sounds good like that.
AFKAEjay(retired)
Groupie
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To me these are the key drivers for getting stuck in knob twisting.
You can’t trust your ears…fact..will never be resolved untill you start to use reference audio/sounds.
The human ear is good at A/B ing stuff…when you do so using trusted sources, you get better results.
Comparing sound A to B, of which none is one that has “proof of the pudding” that it works…no use at all.
I can play sound A and love it, switch to B and hate it for 30 seconds, then love it, and dislike A when I switch back…that’s how fast ears get used to stuff.
3 things that keep me away from endless tone search:
- It doesn’t matter all that much in the end. Mike Stern, Mancuso, players I love to listen to…but I really don’t like their sounds (chorus…jek
). I’ve never turned away from a player cause of their sound.- In live settings, the only bars I set are 1/am I comfortable 2/can I get it “in the mix”.
- Recording: I simply record DI signals, and use a plugin or reamp later. While recording all I need is “adequate”…that takes “the perfect sound” out of the list of conditions to start doing something…and I get more things done.
jay mitchell
Roadie
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If you can't provide a good description of the term "forgiving" beyond simply dropping brand names, I've got to wonder if you really "know what I’m referring too (sic)."
A little context: I've owned a pretty wide variety of tube amps over the past 56 years, including multiple Marshalls and Fenders. I've played even more - e.g., Hiwatt, Acoustic, Ampeg, Sunn, Music Man, Mesa - for long enough periods of time to become familiar with their sound and feel. I'm knowledgeable enough about tube amp design to have developed modifications targeted at altering the sound and feel, and I've on occasion performed those mods on customer amps.
Having said that, I'll add that I haven't the slightest interest in owning a Bad Cat or Matchless. OTOH, I do have intimate experience with the difference between a stock Marshall and the same amp with additional gain stages and tone shaping from mods I developed and performed.
I'll repeat my request that you elaborate on precisely what you mean by "forgiving."
Eagle
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It depends what you measure.
Two things the same that you plot and ten things you don’t. Digital is not the same and can’t be is just a fact. Horses for courses play what you enjoy.
The only thing I critique about digital is in comparison with the analog equipment it is supposed to replicate. In this regard it lacks the feel and dynamic regardless of how you amplify it. Will the audience know? No so it’s only about you. But if someone tells you a digital version of an amp or pedal is exactly the same they are just lying, probably to themselves too.
Two things the same that you plot and ten things you don’t. Digital is not the same and can’t be is just a fact. Horses for courses play what you enjoy.
The only thing I critique about digital is in comparison with the analog equipment it is supposed to replicate. In this regard it lacks the feel and dynamic regardless of how you amplify it. Will the audience know? No so it’s only about you. But if someone tells you a digital version of an amp or pedal is exactly the same they are just lying, probably to themselves too.
Boudoir Guitar
Rock Star
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”I can’t figure out why this IR captured with a mic a couple inches from a speaker doesn’t lead to the same sound as the speaker played in an open room. I just need a better "FRFR"”.This
It’s the main reason that digital can’t do amp in the room and may never be able to unless fr fr gets a lot better in this area.
jay mitchell
Roadie
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To my ears, that's a bug, not a feature. If I'm looking for uncompressed ("peaky"), I want it to be there at any volume I need to play. Ditto more compressed ('smoother"). Tube amps have issues with both of those.
That's not at all a necessary result of using a modeler.
Then your modeler is dialed to match the sound of a louder amp, but you're playing it at a lower volume. If you really want your modeler to sound like the tube amp at low volume, try decreasing master volume and sag and increasing "damping" (i.e., negative feedback) in the modeler's amp block.
If you really want that but can't make your modeler do exactly the same thing, then there's a deficiency in your modeler, the preset you're using, and/or your monitoring solution.
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jay mitchell
Roadie
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Broad generalizations are always false. If somebody tells me that I can't make "a digital version of an amp or pedal" sound the same, they are speaking from abject ignorance, of which they are probably completely unaware.
Eagle
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Digital amps are more compressed feeling even when they don’t sound that way . Far more generic feel across similar but subtly different amp models, less touch sensitive. They sound smaller in the room and you can feel the latency in some platforms sufficiently to feel detached .
These things are lessening the fine nuances in your playing for good and bad. These are small differences but they matter to some people.
Most of this is only apparent to the player.
