The Digital Doubt

[the swede]

I think, regarding the topic and the case Drew is trying to make, that this is a much deeper, complex and complicated matter.

Drew and many others is coming into this with their own experiences and base the questions and concerns from their own view, or how they “work”.

Why can’t you trust your ears?
Why not just use what you need?
Why subscribe to Netflix then?
Surely a modeler is easier than a pedalboard and all its related problems?

I told this in my post, the one directly under Drew’s firsts post. There just isn’t any easy answers. While I find it nice and comforting to see that people express “concerns”, or trying to understand, it’s also a little (just a tiny bit) tiresome to see discussions about it turn into a tech vs tech situation… or squirrels…

It’s tech vs human. We are complex, we are different. I don’t doubt digital, I doubt myself.

So if I function and work better with one simple pedal than with a box full of digital options, it should be a positive solution acknowledged by people around me, whether they understand it or not. It isn’t an itching crust in me, because I found the solution to my issues. It’s shouldn’t be itching for you (those who don’t understand) either.

And I’d like to also add that personally I’ve never complained about modelers, I used them for 6-8 years something. If I complaint or discuss this matter, I am complaining about ME, and that it’s my issues. Not the modelers.

Maybe it’s all just a “what works for you works” thing. Can we agree?

 

[Eagle]

Muahahah.

Who have you played with? What is your regular gig?

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

I think, regarding the topic and the case Drew is trying to make, that this is a much deeper, complex and complicated matter.

Drew and many others is coming into this with their own experiences and base the questions and concerns from their own view, or how they “work”.

Why can’t you trust your ears?
Why not just use what you need?
Why subscribe to Netflix then?
Surely a modeler is easier than a pedalboard and all its related problems?

I told this in my post, the one directly under Drew’s firsts post. There just isn’t any easy answers. While I find it nice and comforting to see that people express “concerns”, or trying to understand, it’s also a little (just a tiny bit) tiresome to see discussions about it turn into a tech vs tech situation… or squirrels…

It’s tech vs human. We are complex, we are different. I don’t doubt digital, I doubt myself.

So if I function and work better with one simple pedal than with a box full of digital options, it should be a positive solution acknowledged by people around me, whether they understand it or not. It isn’t an itching crust in me, because I found the solution to my issues. It’s shouldn’t be itching for you (those who don’t understand) either.

And I’d like to also add that personally I’ve never complained about modelers, I used them for 6-8 years something. If I complaint or discuss this matter, I am complaining about ME, and that it’s my issues. Not the modelers.

Maybe it’s all just a “what works for you works” thing. Can we agree?

Sure. But this thread is fun so why quit.

Side question:

In what way is Tom Bukovac right?

Is the amp just to amplify the sound of the guitar? (He mentions beginners but in his eyes many people might fall in that category)

 

[Sascha Franck]

Who have you played with?

Very good musicians.

What is your regular gig?

Not yours.

 

[Eagle]

Very good musicians.



Not yours.

So nobody anyone would know and nothing good

 

[SillyOctpuss]

@Eagle @Sascha Franck

 

[Sascha Franck]

So nobody anyone would know and nothing good

You wouldn't happen to know.

 

[Eagle]

You wouldn't happen to know.

So what I said .

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

Guys you are making it awkward

 

[laxu]

I'm completely different, because I don't want to switch patches much. So I'm using baseline amp sounds and pedals for variety. Did the same in the analog world already.

I'm firmly in the "Fender cleans, Marshall overdrive" camp so if I can do those two sounds, I'm already good. Scenes for adding some lead delay, maybe altering the same amp's settings for a lead tone etc. At most throw an overdrive on, rather than have a whole array of different drives for different situations.

I do pretty much the same thing with my real world rig but the fx come from pedals, I switch channels on my BluGuitar (most of the OD channels can work fine together with the same EQ) and the "scenes" are done via Luminite M1 MIDI control.

 

[the swede]

Sure. But this thread is fun so why quit.

yeah yeah… I know. That’s this place. We sure have fun. I just wanted to contribute to the subject… for once. I admit that I’m certainly one of those that is constantly off topic.

 

[laxu]

Side question:

In what way is Tom Bukovac right?

Is the amp just to amplify the sound of the guitar? (He mentions beginners but in his eyes many people might fall in that category)

I complained in another thread about Tom B not providing enough context, but I assume he's saying that beginners have far more pressing concerns than working with the nuances of an amp. They will already struggle plenty of time with barre chords, chord changes, scales etc. So a good enough beginner amp is plenty for learning all that.

I remember when I got an extremely dynamic tube amp, a Stephenson LJ10, which was sort of like a mini Trainwreck Express style circuit afaik. If my picking was not consistent, then it would be all over the place. I had to really learn to play more evenly.

You might encounter the same thing playing a clean channel of a very high headroom tube amp, it can get really loud when you hit the strings hard, so if your picking dynamics are not consistent, then you might struggle.

With modelers you don't typically get a massive volume jump and most amp models default to settings that are close to cranked so you might have some compression to help you along the way.

For overdrive being able to keep things in control by muting strings well etc is another skill to learn.

IMO you "play the amp" just as much as you play the guitar.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I'm firmly in the "Fender cleans, Marshall overdrive" camp so if I can do those two sounds, I'm already good.

These are basically the two sound topologies I reach for as well, but I always adjust things so they work well with pedals (regardless whether they're analog or digital). Which means I'd not use a too bright Fender-ish sound and not much drive (sometimes just a tiny bit of "hair") on the Marshall-side. Most often I could get away with just one of them, but a 2 channel setup with dedicated channels for anything clean-ish and anything "real" dirt is the most comfortable to handle for me. It's what I'm actually using since decades already.

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

I complained in another thread about Tom B not providing enough context, but I assume he's saying that beginners have far more pressing concerns than working with the nuances of an amp. They will already struggle plenty of time with barre chords, chord changes, scales etc. So a good enough beginner amp is plenty for learning all that.

I remember when I got an extremely dynamic tube amp, a Stephenson LJ10, which was sort of like a mini Trainwreck Express style circuit afaik. If my picking was not consistent, then it would be all over the place. I had to really learn to play more evenly.

You might encounter the same thing playing a clean channel of a very high headroom tube amp, it can get really loud when you hit the strings hard, so if your picking dynamics are not consistent, then you might struggle.

With modelers you don't typically get a massive volume jump and most amp models default to settings that are close to cranked so you might have some compression to help you along the way.

For overdrive being able to keep things in control by muting strings well etc is another skill to learn.

IMO you "play the amp" just as much as you play the guitar.

Thanks man. What I do notice is that I play better on a fender style amp in the Helix than a Marshall. The JMT45 is really cool, but it’s so hmmm transparent?

 

[FuzzyAce]

That's the trap. But realistically, you could just use your HX Stomp for all your fx needs unless you want to be a stickler about your precious analog signal.

I wouldn't call investing in a nice tube amp or pedals a trap. It's definitely a choice, a road to travel that many enjoy.
The trap would be more like thinking a tube amp will make you a better player or that it should fill a void your playing can't fill.

 

[FuzzyAce]

View attachment 36131

The very first rear-wheel drive.

 

[mercifulfuzziness]

I wouldn't call investing in a nice tube amp or pedals a trap. It's definitely a choice, a road to travel that many enjoy.
The trap would be more like thinking a tube amp will make you a better player or that it should fill a void your playing can't fill.

I think he meant the trap is that you keep buying different amps and pedals.

 

[Eagle]

The digital version of an amp is always more forgiving ime. You may or may not like that but neither is likely to make you a better player. Practicing dry may though.

 

[Sascha Franck]

The trap would be more like thinking a tube amp will make you a better player or that it should fill a void your playing can't fill.

Yeah - but in the end, IMO everything inspiring you to play more (or allow you to get into playing "condition" quicker) is a good investment. Apart from a few things I may really need (which are very few since ages already), pretty much all my investments are following this "rule". And it seems to work quite well, almost everything I bought throughout the last, say, decade, has met one or the other criterium.

However, it often seems to be almost the other way around, as in people buying more stuff than they could ever really make good use of. Up to the point were buying stuff and/or fantasizing about it becomes its own thing (I have been a victim of that as well, but I seem to have gotten rid of it for the most part). Just so that nobody gets me wrong, I'm absolutely fine with people doing so, but it's becoming something different from optimizing your guitar playing workflow, it's rather a stamp collecting thing (which, as said, is fine).

I think he meant the trap is that you keep buying different amps and pedals.

Which isn't really that much of a trap depending on where you live and what you buy in case you're sort of disciplined. As in buying 2nd hand as well and selling things you don't need. Doesn't even cost too much money once you have a certain stock to juggle around with.

 

[jay mitchell]

The digital version of an amp is always more forgiving ime.

What does "forgiving" even mean? Correcting clams? Fixing bad time or intonation?