Ten billion profiles/captures = one amp

[Sascha Franck]

Line6 effects aren't any better in this regard, I'd say their default settings are worse than Fractal's.

I have very little firsthand experience with Fractal stuff (only borrowed an Axe FX III for around a week when it was just available, mainly stayed within a bunch of presets), but quite some of the Line 6 effects are really bad by default indeed. Pretty much all delays and reverbs have their mix parameter up *way* too much, so that's the first thing you need to grab - and in case you're on a Stomp it already requires page flipping.
And we're really only talking delays and reverbs here. Couldn't imagine how much worse it'd be in case there was something more complexed to deal with.

Strymon Zelzah's Voice control is genius because it answers "phaser, flanger, chorus or something in between?" in one knob. Similarly Deco's Lag Time is "flanger, chorus, slapback or longer delay?" That sort of things can turn the complex into simple to understand. This stuff is more in line with the "let the eggheads who make these things figure out the hard stuff" that most people want.

That's exactly the kind of stuff needed.

But it's hard to find that sweet spot where the power users who want to tweak everything are happy, but also those who "just want a great sound and play" are satisfied.

And that's exactly why I mentioned the FM7. For anyone not willing to spend much time with it, the Easy Edit page is just what the doctor ordered - but you can still access each and every detail under the hood on the plain editing pages.

Parts of Logic have it pretty right, too. Most of the plugins delivered with Logic have some sort of macro/controller assignments ready to use, so you often don't even need to open the plugin UI anymore, the mapped controllers will cover most of your needs already.

All of that stuff could easily find its way into the land of modeling.

 

[Achilles]

I don’t think it has anything to do with guitarists being conservative. Is the goal of every guitarist to achieve synth tones?

The moment before I read this I was thinking about my guitar and the number of permutations possible with 2 x pickups, 2 x vol and tone controls - each with 11 marked positions, and a 3 way pickup selector.

How many possible tone options is that?

Now how many different ways can I pluck and/or pick a single note? All the way from barely a peep with the soft part of a finger to a screaming harmonic with the edge of a pick, and dozens of variations in between.

Now let's step on an overdrive and do some more math.

Who needs a synth?

 

[Sascha Franck]

I don’t think it has anything to do with guitarists being conservative.

I think it has a whole lot to do with it. How else would you explain that people are constantly asking for decade old sounds rather than for anything new (that is not a chugging amp or a shimmer verb...)?

Is the goal of every guitarist to achieve synth tones? Is “progress” of an instrument to move closer to digital synthesizing?

Of course not. That was just an example.

What about other instruments? Do drums sound the same way they did 50 years ago because drummers are too conservative? How about the clarinet?

Many instruments do in fact not sound at all like 50 years ago anymore. Classical instruments are an entirely different thing used for very specific genres. But when you look at popular music, the sounds of keyboards, basses and partially drums as well have massively changed (all you need to do to get some proof is to play some top 100 charts) whereas guitars still sound pretty much the same.
There's been a time when it was sort of different. A good example might be Bowies albums, which have very often featured pretty "fresh" guitar sounds. But these days' music is far away from that.

99.99999% of the time I’m asked to play it’s because they want the sound of an electric guitar to suit the music they are creating. Not because they want weird innovative synth sounds

That's because you're replicating most of the time.

 

[Sascha Franck]

How many possible tone options is that?

They all sound very same-ish.

 

[Achilles]

They all sound very same-ish.

Depends on the hands of the player. Jeff Beck in his later years sounded nothing like Stevie Ray Vaughn in his prime.
And while playing a guitar I think it's highly acceptable for a person to want/expect it to sound mostly guitary-ish.

OF COURSE, ymmv.

 

[Orvillain]

I have synths to sound like synths. I have drum software to sound like drums. I have piano libraries to sound like pianos. When I do vocals, I try not to sound like a hyena, and instead try to sound like a vocalist.

What is so wrong with guitar sounding like guitar?

Just because you love a certain pool of sounds, doesn't make you conservative. Just because you love to slather your guitar in a ton of effects, or pitch shift the hell out of it until it is recognisable, doesn't mean you're progressive either.

There's nothing new under the sun, and things sound the way they do for a reason - because people want them to sound like that. You may as well rant about the state of modern rap, hip-hop, and pop vocals with their autotune fetish.

Pierre Schaeffer and Stockhausen beat everyone to the innovation game anyway.

 

[metropolis_4]

I think it has a whole lot to do with it. How else would you explain that people are constantly asking for decade old sounds rather than for anything new (that is not a chugging amp or a shimmer verb...)?



Of course not. That was just an example.



Many instruments do in fact not sound at all like 50 years ago anymore. Classical instruments are an entirely different thing used for very specific genres. But when you look at popular music, the sounds of keyboards, basses and partially drums as well have massively changed (all you need to do to get some proof is to play some top 100 charts) whereas guitars still sound pretty much the same.
There's been a time when it was sort of different. A good example might be Bowies albums, which have very often featured pretty "fresh" guitar sounds. But these days' music is far away from that.



That's because you're replicating most of the time.

I don’t think drums and bass have changed nearly as much as you think.

What about acoustic instruments? Are people who play acoustic instruments conservatives stuck in the past because they aren’t digitizing and pushing synth tones from their instrument?

Should all instruments strive to move towards digital synthesizing? Is that what progress in music means?

 

[Sascha Franck]

Depends on the hands of the player. Jeff Beck in his later years sounded nothing like Stevie Ray Vaughn in his prime.
And while playing a guitar I think it's highly acceptable for a person to want/expect it to sound mostly guitary-ish.

Compared to different synth sounds, they still sound extremely same-ish.

 

[Sascha Franck]

I don’t think drums and bass have changed nearly as much as you think.

There's synth basses and triggered drums all over the place.

What about acoustic instruments? Are people who play acoustic instruments conservatives stuck in the past because they aren’t digitizing and pushing synth tones from their instrument?

Last I checked, we weren't talking acoustic instruments round these parts.

Should all instruments strive to move towards digital synthesizing? Is that what progress in music means?

No.

 

[Achilles]

Compared to different synth sounds, they still sound extremely same-ish.

Psssst.
It's a guitar.

How much are you planning on spending just to make your guitar sound like a faux one of these?

 

[Sascha Franck]

How much are you planning on spending just to make your guitar sound like a faux one of these?

I think you need to get past whatever stereotypes. Who says guitar based synthesis should sound the same as keyboard based synthesis?

 

[Achilles]

I think you need to get past whatever stereotypes. Who says guitar based synthesis should sound the same as keyboard based synthesis?

Dude/dudette?, I'm a AAA Grade old luddite.
I'm just trying to keep up with the discussion in between playing my standard tuned 6 string guitar.

I know, a relic huh?

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

I have synths to sound like synths. I have drum software to sound like drums. I have piano libraries to sound like pianos. When I do vocals, I try not to sound like a hyena, and instead try to sound like a vocalist.

What is so wrong with guitar sounding like guitar?

Just because you love a certain pool of sounds, doesn't make you conservative. Just because you love to slather your guitar in a ton of effects, or pitch shift the hell out of it until it is recognisable, doesn't mean you're progressive either.

There's nothing new under the sun, and things sound the way they do for a reason - because people want them to sound like that. You may as well rant about the state of modern rap, hip-hop, and pop vocals with their autotune fetish.

Pierre Schaeffer and Stockhausen beat everyone to the innovation game anyway.

Well the majority of guitar tones do not sound like a guitar.

Ive been down this road many times in hands vs gear discussion.
The old question of making a Twin sound like a Recto…
In my world distortion is an effect, sure i overuse it fir all that matters but thats nit guitar tones.
A guitar tone is hands on strings on an acoustic.
The over the top gained out stuff might as well be a synth.

how many discussions start with you beed x ir y pedal to make amp z sound good… ugh

 

[metropolis_4]

There's synth basses and triggered drums all over the place.



Last I checked, we weren't talking acoustic instruments round these parts.



No.

There’s also acoustic and electric bass and acoustic drums all over the place.

I know several full time pro bassists who do original music, top 40, funk, dance, country, rock, jazz, etc. using nothing but a jazz bass and a Noble preamp

And while most of the pro drummers I know own an electric kit, they rarely use them, and when they do they use them to imitate acoustic drum sounds about 90% of the time.

I use digital & modeling gear just as much for acoustic instruments as I do for electric instruments

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

I think you need to get past whatever stereotypes. Who says guitar based synthesis should sound the same as keyboard based synthesis?

There’s your proof positive of the conservative nature of plank spankers.

You might be too young but remember the Bond guitar from the 80s?

 

[Achilles]

Also, been there and done that already by the best. Nothing left to see imo.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

There’s also acoustic and electric bass and acoustic drums all over the place.

I know several full time pro bassists who do original music, top 40, funk, dance, country, rock, jazz, etc. using nothing but a jazz bass and a Noble preamp

And while most of the pro drummers I know own an electric kit, they rarely use them, and when they do they use them to imitate acoustic drum sounds about 90% of the time.

I use digital & modeling gear just as much for acoustic instruments as I do for electric instruments

And you think any if them with their Jazz bass and roundwound strings sound like Jaco or even worse James Jamerson with his Precision with flatwounds?

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Also, been there and done that already by the best. Nothing left to see imo.

And what is the point? This has less to do with guitar and more with controller and the reason is he hated guitar to sound like guitar

 

[Orvillain]

It isn't even true that people aren't asking for "cutting edge" non-vintage stuff. People ask all the time. Helix is absolutely replete with so many choppy cutty-up glitch effects that it isn't even funny. People are asking for that kind of stuff for the Axe FX III for a long time now too.

Making a guitar sound like a subtractive synth is hard to do, and even harder to do it well. We're extremely lucky to have what we already do have tbh.

 

[Achilles]

And what is the point? This has less to do with guitar and more with controller and the reason is he hated guitar to sound like guitar

He's a guitar player making synth sounds out of a guitar-ish like instrument?? I'm not keeping up very well with the topic cause I think it's become a bit fluid.