Ten billion profiles/captures = one amp

[metropolis_4]

And you think any if them with their Jazz bass and roundwound strings sound like Jaco or even worse James Jamerson with his Precision with flatwounds?

When the music calls for it. Have you listened to Joe Dart’s work with Vulfpeck? Or Justin Meldal-Johnsen’s work with St Vincent?

 

[Sascha Franck]

There’s also acoustic and electric bass and acoustic drums all over the place.

I never said they wouldn't have their place.
You know, there's a thing called "place for both".

Also, been there and done that already by the best. Nothing left to see imo.

Irrelevant as it's still MIDI, which sucks at transporting typical guitar techniques.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Making a guitar sound like a subtractive synth is hard to do, and even harder to do it well.

It's not, as soon as you get past the expectation of things to sound like a key triggered synth.
In fact, guitar strings make up for an excellent oscillator kinda source as they're harmonically rich by nature. In addition, guitar playing techniques allow for a lot more expressive stuff than some keys, which, at least by default, only offer on/off, velocity and pitch information. You can't alter the sound with your playing at source level, with a guitar, you can.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

It isn't even true that people aren't asking for "cutting edge" non-vintage stuff. People ask all the time. Helix is absolutely replete with so many choppy cutty-up glitch effects that it isn't even funny. People are asking for that kind of stuff for the Axe FX III for a long time now too.

Making a guitar sound like a subtractive synth is hard to do, and even harder to do it well. We're extremely lucky to have what we already do have tbh.

Again whatever is happening in popular music is mirrored in gear.
But look at the success of striped guitars even before EVH died.

Look at what cover and tribute bands regurgitate! Its all boomer, gen x guitar genation stuff we grew up on.
What havens when we went the way of the dinosaur?
New bands that sound killer as long as they can edit but cant do it live?

 

[Orvillain]

It's not, as soon as you get past the expectation of things to sound like a key triggered synth.
In fact, guitar strings make up for an excellent oscillator kinda source as they're harmonically rich by nature. In addition, guitar playing techniques allow for a lot more expressive stuff than some keys, which, at least by default, only offer on/off, velocity and pitch information. You can't alter the sound with your playing at source level, with a guitar, you can.

Nonsense. It is a very difficult physics problem, requiring a lot of DSP knowledge across several domains.

 

[Orvillain]

Again whatever is happening in popular music is mirrored in gear.
But look at the success of striped guitars even before EVH died.

Look at what cover and tribute bands regurgitate! Its all boomer, gen x guitar genation stuff we grew up on.
What havens when we went the way of the dinosaur?
New bands that sound killer as long as they can edit but cant do it live?

I have no idea how that relates to what I said.

 

[metropolis_4]

I never said they wouldn't have their place.
You know, there's a thing called "place for both".

Are the people using them doing so because they’re too conservative and traditional?

 

[Achilles]

I am completely lost as to the main point being discussed here. I do disagree 100% with Sasha that vibrating steel strings and guitar technique make for good triggers.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

When the music calls for it. Have you listened to Joe Dart’s work with Vulfpeck? Or Justin Meldal-Johnsen’s work with St Vincent?

Obviously but it doesn’t sound like either, yet some how Landau sounds a lot like Jimi

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Again whatever is happening in popular music is mirrored in gear.
But look at the success of striped guitars even before EVH died.

Look at what cover and tribute bands regurgitate! Its all boomer, gen x guitar genation stuff we grew up on.
What havens when we went the way of the dinosaur?
New bands that sound killer as long as they can edit but cant do it live?

I have no idea how that relates to what I said.

Hope does it nit relate to having the glitchy stuff in L6?

 

[Orvillain]

Hope does it nit relate to having the glitchy stuff in L6?

I genuinely have no idea. It isn't like glitch effects were invented in 2018 or anything.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Hey Ed !

Its actually the Gain as well as the Tone stack plus the Cap .... and yep it does ... I posted some clips at "the other place" comparing the same L.P vs the same Legacy Profile at the same varying settings .... and the differences are very, very stark ... a clip obviously though cant convey feel and dynamics

Not totally sure what you mean about the "base character" but each LP now does not use the old legacy generic "amp base" ..... you *can* if you want re-insert the old "generic" stack .. but then you lose all the new benefits .... this is no doubt why the so-called Kemper Amp signature that many of us all knew and loved/hated .... is now also gone ... although there is one poster here on TGF that swears its still there :) .. it isn't :)

Again, anyone one may love or hate or think L.P is total horse-sh%t ... its all good :) .... that's kind of not really my actual point though.

If we are talking about fantastic great authentically tweakable raw Amp tones ... which I *think* we are, to leave out the new KPA approach for the current [and growing] list of 44 Amp Channels .... is just ignoring the current 2023 reality with the KPA.

Ben

As i said im still interested but as we both have said the “feel” thing isnt gonna happen in clips. And fir years we have “it now washes whiter” BS on all things digi.

But what kinda bugs me us that dynamic not static nonsense. It bugs me as much on speaker sims (like Ox etc) as here.

When i think dynamic i think of the box responding different to an input signal.

Best example impedance curve. Irregardless if its a reactive load ( meaning it has an inductor, whoppee) or software that models it. Once again a static eq curve.
And real amp/cab interaction…fluid change in it is there and its frequency dependant. And frequency content is overtone dependant. (Mo gain mo overtones)
But thats were Kemper tells us in the manual that non MV amps have lower overtones and high gain multiple gain stages higher???
for real?!?!

When did harmonics seize to be even and odd? If i take the note e on d string at 165 Hz the sixth harmonic (b)is louder than 4th (e)or 5th (g#). That’s on most class A/B designs.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Nonsense. It is a very difficult physics problem, requiring a lot of DSP knowledge across several domains.

Nonsense. Roland had it almost nailed over 25 years ago already with their VG series.
And fwiw: No, I'm not expecting any guitar synthesis system to do the same what keyboard based systems are doing. That'd in fact be very difficult. The VG/SY way isn't. And it's resulting in much more guitar player friendly sounds, too.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Are the people using them doing so because they’re too conservative and traditional?

Partially, yes. You're a good example. And I never said "too" traditional. Yet, they're possibly a large part of the reasons for things not moving further.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Nonsense. It is a very difficult physics problem, requiring a lot of DSP knowledge across several domains.

Jam Origin – Audio to MIDI

www.jamorigin.com

 

[Sascha Franck]

I actually don't even know why we're discussing all this. You only need to look around this very forum to see that most people's demands are extremely conservative when it comes to certain "core sounds". Listen to the music people are posting. Soundwise, everything has "oldschool" plastered all over the place.
And fwiw, no, I'm not an exception of that. Most of the sounds I'm using are plain old boring stuff. Doesn't change anything with what I was saying, more to the opposite - because I'm part of that ultra conservative guitar player sound ecosystem.

 

[Achilles]

most people's demands are extremely conservative

Wrong word. Makes it sound like we're consciously holding back from something for some reason.

My demands are extremely traditional.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Wrong word. Makes it sound like we're consciously holding back from something for some reason.

Which at least is the result.

 

[FuzzyAce]

Nothing wrong with the word. Every popular instrument has plateaued into what we consider a standard for said instrument. Why should electric guitar be any different? We have about 100 yrs of trial and error and a handful of 'tones' or 'method of tones' that have risen to the top. Doesn't mean we can't expand and create new tones, but how far out there do we really want it to go? Getting the feel and functionality proper should be #1 goal imo.

 

[DrewJD82]

Just because you love a certain pool of sounds, doesn't make you conservative. Just because you love to slather your guitar in a ton of effects, or pitch shift the hell out of it until it is recognisable, doesn't mean you're progressive either.

Almost pissed myself here, the band I had in the early-mid 00’s, we had some tunes that weren’t proggy at all, some songs that were really proggy….and the ones in-between were only in-between because I’d force in some proggy with a ton of effects or pitch shifting the hell out of it until it was unrecognizable.

You could make a bingo card-

1. Delay trails over a pause in music
2. Rhythmic delay pattern w/ enough distortion you can’t tell if you fuck up, 2-A. Pitched/effected rhythmic delays
3. Drop D/C chord sustaining w/flange into bridge where the bass or drums start the next part first, then guitar comes in
4. Subtle, quiet clean into loud distorted parts repeatedly
5. Sick hi-hat pattern over a hip hop kick/snare pattern
6. Megaphone effect on vocals for everything but the last chous
7. Perform #3 while staring straight into the audience as if you’re catatonic
8. Feedback.
9. Drummer only plays on the toms during the verses
10. 1 good vocal melody only used once in a song, probably the bridge