Some interesting news from Kemper (Profiler Player)

[Deadpan]

It is absolutely not the only unit on the market that attempts to track controls at different settings on the real amps or let’s you change tonestacks in different models .
It’s a cool feature that was basically added to address the ToneX , Qc more accurate profiling claims most likely

Kemper has planned to add Liquid tonestack for a long time. Close to the release of the product CK mentioned it.

 

[Sascha Franck]

You wouldn't happen to be a documentation guy, would you? Like, for a living?

You... think that ..... documentation .... guys are using ... that many points and ..... such?
(SCNR)

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

It is absolutely not the only unit on the market that attempts to track controls at different settings on the real amps or let’s you change tonestacks in different models .
It’s a cool feature that was basically added to address the ToneX , Qc more accurate profiling claims most likely

Who else does it?

 

[JasonE]

I'm a *big* fan of Leo and his tests .... and have held back on "commenting" on this video .... for fear of being accused of being a "Kemper Fan-Boi" ..... but here goes as "balnced'ly" as I can.

Leo has [doubtlessly] inadvertently "missed" the biggest issue ..... he only tried the "reduced gain" test ie: what the Tonex and Kemper actually "hear" ..... not much more importantly, what they "don't hear".

Not surprisingly, at the reduced / "known" settings ... where both the Kemper and Tonex both did hear and "understand" the Gain and EQ they were hearing ...... the results stayed-broadly the same as at the original "static" settings.

This "same difference" is exactly as you would expect and is not a new revelation ... why ?

When they Profile or Capture .... Kemper, QC, Tonex NAM etc..... are all verygood / accurate at "reading" the gain levels and EQ's up to the gain and EQ levels set on the real Amp as that is what they are actually "sampling" / "hearing"

Nothing controversial here .... this has been well known since Day 1 of the Kemper and the other devices.

Pre-LP's ...... Kemper, QC, Tonex, NAM etc.... had *no idea* what is going on beyond the real Amp settings ...... they all just applied a generic db gain boost and generic post-eq.

The QC, Tonex and NAM ... still all just apply a generic db gain boost and generic post-eq beyond the real amp settings ... its a very rough "guess" ... with rough being the nicest word I could use

To better demonstrate ..... and I really don't like self-referring -my-own-posts ... but check:-

=> here for the Plexi LP vs Plexi Generic test and

=> here for the Fender Deluxe Normal LP test vs Fender Deluxe Normal Channel Generic test.

You will notice how up until around 12.00 the Generic Profile and the LP very-loosely stay in the same-ish zone ...... then listen what happens at the 3.00pm setting and the full settings .... its an utter undignified putrid mess.

And I'll save you the ear-ache and time.....for the record .....before I sold my Tonex ..... I did the exact same A/Bíng with the Tonex Pedal and it was equally horrendous at the 3.00pm and full settings compared to the Kemper LP's

My point ?

"Down-gaining" a Kemper Static or LP or a Tonex is no biggie ...... they both pretty much know what is going on up to the actual real Amp settings ... hence why the static LUFS comparison and the down-gained LUFS comparison "differences" are %99.99 identical .... notwithstanding that the LP did improve a bit

The key and big leap forward with LP is not -"down-gaining a profile" ...... but rather "matching" the Kemper modelled Amp Channel to a Profile of the [same] real Amp during the profiling stage .... so the Kemper LP now has a pretty excellent idea of what the Gain and EQ should do when set beyond their actual real-amp-profiled-settings . [ this of course only works as long as the Amp you are profiling is on the current list of 44 Kemper Amp Channels and you do the LP as per the Manual instructions ].

And for the record, Leo did not set the Amp up in one of the 2 C.K recommended ways to do a proper LP .... ie: Gain on full and EQ all at 12.00 -or- Gain on the "max-non-flub-out-setting" and the EQ all on 12.00 ...... check the video ..... but that's another issue.

Obviously ... in his video ..... Leo did not demonstrate this difference of how Tonex and LP's respond when the Gain and EQ is pushed beyond the real amp settings.

If he had ...... he would have shown exactly what I showed above in my 2 links ...... and the Tonex .... I can assure you.....would have [and does] sound just as horrific as the Kemper Generic Profiles when pushed beyond the Amps known settings ... whereas the Kemper LP's all respond "authentically" across the full real amp-range.

Its a bit confusing ..... I hope I've explained this well / clearly :)

All the best,
Ben

This makes sense. Any profiling process can only capture what you give it. If you have not given the process the full gain of the amp, it has to try to figure it out when you go beyond what you profiled. I would expect this to be an issue with any manufacturers capture process.

 

[GTR37]

Who wise does it?

I don’t understand the question not enough coffee yet
Are you asking which product allows you to switch tone stacks and models the range of the full controls ?

 

[Mongillo19]

I don’t understand the question not enough coffee yet
Are you asking which product allows you to switch tone stacks and models the range of the full controls ?

Not the person who commented but there truly isn't anything yet (outside allegedly kemper) where I can capture my amp at a specific setting, enter that setting into unit, and then be able to adjust BMT Gain and have it work like the real amp.

Yes, modelers do this to a degree but it's someone else's amp that was modeled. Now if you don't have any amps, obviously that won't matter to you but if someone was determined to get their amp tone and the accompanied settings, Kemper is the only thing out there at the moment

 

[GTR37]

Not the person who commented but there truly isn't anything yet (outside allegedly kemper) where I can capture my amp at a specific setting, enter that setting into unit, and then be able to adjust BMT Gain and have it work like the real amp.

Yes, modelers do this to a degree but it's someone else's amp that was modeled. Now if you don't have any amps, obviously that won't matter to you but if someone was determined to get their amp tone and the accompanied settings, Kemper is the only thing out there at the moment

Ah fair enough we are talking about profiling your own personal amp collection
Then yes Kemper would be the first of the profilers to do that

 

[JiveTurkey]

Not to but it's interesting how little of a ripple Kemper makes in the hive mind here. It's not that it's a bad product at all. It's just kinda there and not exciting really in the slightest

 

[Mongillo19]

Ah fair enough we are talking about profiling your own personal amp collection
Then yes Kemper would be the first of the profilers to do that

But then we circle back to "does Kemper accurately profile your amp in the first place?"

It never ends!

 

[Mongillo19]

Not to but it's interesting how little of a ripple Kemper makes in the hive mind here. It's not that it's a bad product at all. It's just kinda there and not exciting really in the slightest

I will always be interested by the Kemper. It was my first digital hardware!

But I was hoping for a Kemper 2 but with the announcement of the player, I don't see that happening. If they could get their profiling up to Tone X levels with the addition of LP, I'd have one on the way

 

[JiveTurkey]

I will always be interested by the Kemper. It was my first digital hardware!

But I was hoping for a Kemper 2 but with the announcement of the player, I don't see that happening. If they could get their profiling up to Tone X levels with the addition of LP, I'd have one on the way

It's a great tool for a working musician. But as far as "I can't wait for this that or the other to get added to it" it is about as flatline as they come in my mind.

 

[TubeStack]

Not to but it's interesting how little of a ripple Kemper makes in the hive mind here. It's not that it's a bad product at all. It's just kinda there and not exciting really in the slightest

The hive mind here is extremely FAS-focused/biased. (I know, stating the obvious .)

 

[Sascha Franck]

but if someone was determined to get their amp tone and the accompanied settings, Kemper is the only thing out there at the moment

Thing is, apart from the FAS offerings, regardless of the underlying modeling/capturing, the Kemper right now is the only platform allowing you to quickly chose between different gain/tone-stacks. That's something attracting me a whole lot - and I'm not even remotely interested in the added authenticity available through such maneuvers, I just like the additional tonal flexibility.

 

[JCW308]

Kemper Stage is still on my radar. Not this though.

 

[eggpl@nt]

Like others, Kemper has been on and off my radar for the last 6 years. I was convinced a new one was just around the corner (lol) and I’ve continued to just watch without playing ball. I maintain that a Kemper 2 would be an easy pickup for me if CK ever decides to make a more powerful version (dual profiles, for example).

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

I don’t understand the question not enough coffee yet
Are you asking which product allows you to switch tone stacks and models the range of the full controls ?

Fixed. Autocorrect thought it knows best.

Question is who else aside kemper gives you the tone stack thing

 

[JasonE]

Like others, Kemper has been on and off my radar for the last 6 years. I was convinced a new one was just around the corner (lol) and I’ve continued to just watch without playing ball. I maintain that a Kemper 2 would be an easy pickup for me if CK ever decides to make a more powerful version (dual profiles, for example).

I don't see them ever doing the dual profiles capability. From a recent poll I saw on a post, that is a feature that many people say they want but in reality don't use. The poll was overwhelmingly slanted to people only using one amp in a preset.

 

[eggpl@nt]

I don't see them ever doing the dual profiles capability. From a recent poll I saw on a post, that is a feature that many people say they want but in reality don't use. The poll was overwhelmingly slanted to people only using one amp in a preset.

Yeah, that’s the most likely outcome. So I’ll either just bite the bullet on these Kemper units hitting $900, or I’ll continue to watch from afar.

FWIW, my interest in dual profiles is more for digitizing my OD/Boost collection to be used with my digitized amps. I think that’s a killer feature of the QC.

 

[Mongillo19]

So I’ll either just bite the bullet on these Kemper units hitting $900, or I’ll continue to watch from afar.

Those are out there if you are lucky

 

[timbuck3]

I'm a *big* fan of Leo and his tests .... and have held back on "commenting" on this video .... for fear of being accused of being a "Kemper Fan-Boi" ..... but here goes as "balnced'ly" as I can.

Leo has [doubtlessly] inadvertently "missed" the biggest issue ..... he only tried the "reduced gain" test ie: what the Tonex and Kemper actually "hear" ..... not much more importantly, what they "don't hear".

Not surprisingly, at the reduced / "known" settings ... where both the Kemper and Tonex both did hear and "understand" the Gain and EQ they were hearing ...... the results stayed-broadly the same as at the original "static" settings.

This "same difference" is exactly as you would expect and is not a new revelation ... why ?

When they Profile or Capture .... Kemper, QC, Tonex NAM etc..... are all verygood / accurate at "reading" the gain levels and EQ's up to the gain and EQ levels set on the real Amp as that is what they are actually "sampling" / "hearing"

Nothing controversial here .... this has been well known since Day 1 of the Kemper and the other devices.

Pre-LP's ...... Kemper, QC, Tonex, NAM etc.... had *no idea* what is going on beyond the real Amp settings ...... they all just applied a generic db gain boost and generic post-eq.

The QC, Tonex and NAM ... still all just apply a generic db gain boost and generic post-eq beyond the real amp settings ... its a very rough "guess" ... with rough being the nicest word I could use

To better demonstrate ..... and I really don't like self-referring -my-own-posts ... but check:-

=> here for the Plexi LP vs Plexi Generic test and

=> here for the Fender Deluxe Normal LP test vs Fender Deluxe Normal Channel Generic test.

You will notice how up until around 12.00 the Generic Profile and the LP very-loosely stay in the same-ish zone ...... then listen what happens at the 3.00pm setting and the full settings .... its an utter undignified putrid mess.

And I'll save you the ear-ache and time.....for the record .....before I sold my Tonex ..... I did the exact same A/Bíng with the Tonex Pedal and it was equally horrendous at the 3.00pm and full settings compared to the Kemper LP's

My point ?

"Down-gaining" a Kemper Static or LP or a Tonex is no biggie ...... they both pretty much know what is going on up to the actual real Amp settings ... hence why the static LUFS comparison and the down-gained LUFS comparison "differences" are %99.99 identical .... notwithstanding that the LP did improve a bit

The key and big leap forward with LP is not -"down-gaining a profile" ...... but rather "matching" the Kemper modelled Amp Channel to a Profile of the [same] real Amp during the profiling stage .... so the Kemper LP now has a pretty excellent idea of what the Gain and EQ should do when set beyond their actual real-amp-profiled-settings . [ this of course only works as long as the Amp you are profiling is on the current list of 44 Kemper Amp Channels and you do the LP as per the Manual instructions ].

And for the record, Leo did not set the Amp up in one of the 2 C.K recommended ways to do a proper LP .... ie: Gain on full and EQ all at 12.00 -or- Gain on the "max-non-flub-out-setting" and the EQ all on 12.00 ...... check the video ..... but that's another issue.

Obviously ... in his video ..... Leo did not demonstrate this difference of how Tonex and LP's respond when the Gain and EQ is pushed beyond the real amp settings.

If he had ...... he would have shown exactly what I showed above in my 2 links ...... and the Tonex .... I can assure you.....would have [and does] sound just as horrific as the Kemper Generic Profiles when pushed beyond the Amps known settings ... whereas the Kemper LP's all respond "authentically" across the full real amp-range.

Its a bit confusing ..... I hope I've explained this well / clearly :)

All the best,
Ben

let him know this he isnt perfect and its very mello