Seems like no more good Pots for amps.........

[Orvillain]

The Plex is $2,799.99 - and in rare form, the UK price is also £2,799.99.

There is a LOT of competition in that price range I feel. Hell... an Orange Rockerverb MK3 100-watt is only £1,839.00 which for the sound and quality of the amp, is quite a steal. Even when I bought mine in 2018 it was £1699, so hasn't gone up that much due to inflation.

A brand new Marshall JVM410H - £1,339.00 from Andertons. Does the Plexi thing better than it has any right to. The 1987X Vintage Re-issue is
£1,499.00.

A Mesa Boogie Badlander 100 is £3,099.00 in the UK (once they finally land on our shores!) and it does a lot more than the Friedman Plex will, and as we know.... is almost forum royalty at this point. Not a massive price difference versus the Plex.

A Revv 100R is £2,799.00 and the 100P is £2,999.00 - and these are 3 channel amps, that I'm guessing would get very close to that classic cranked Plexi sound too.

That was just 4minutes of Googling. I'm sure there are a lot more to choose from. Suffice to say..... Friedman always consistently put me off with their pricing strategy. Their products aren't interesting enough for the prices they're charging. That isn't just amps either - checkout the pedalboards and the power supplies. Absolutely insane pricing there.

 

[GuitarBilly74]

But we do need objective evidence and analysis . Amps may be the sum of their parts but cherry picking individual components and testing them is situ to see how they sound on an amp by amp basis was the MO of Dumble only . Plus the ability and experience to know what to change to get the sound in your head. Just getting tight tolerance parts still leaves plenty of scope for considerable cumulative impact. Plus remember practically all electronics components are mass produced in China. That just leaves pcb and build .

I agree with this. The main problem I have with this type of thread is people are jumping into conclusions that the amp is "inferior" basically by just looking at pictures, which is by far the least objective way to analyze the quality of an amp.
Hell, the amp is a week old, there hasn't been even enough time to make any objective analysis on reliability yet.

I agree that most components are made in China these days, but there are quality and price tiers even between MIC components.

I tend to believe Friedman when he says he found out that these type of pots are more consistent than individual pots.
Not because I think Dave is a Saint or something (I don't know him) but he does all the customer service and a large portion of the US warranty repairs himself and he would be shooting himself in the foot if a bunch amps started coming back with issues. He also backs his whole amp line, including this amp with a lifetime warranty for the original owner, which to me is a good sign of standing by the product.

Obviously, this also lowers cost - and he said that somewhere in the thread quoted on the OP. But it's possible to use PCB to reduce costs and maintain quality, they are not mutually exclusive. The problem is when the former suffers because of the latter, but so far there's no real indication that's what happened here.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

The Plex is $2,799.99 - and in rare form, the UK price is also £2,799.99.

There is a LOT of competition in that price range I feel. Hell... an Orange Rockerverb MK3 100-watt is only £1,839.00 which for the sound and quality of the amp, is quite a steal. Even when I bought mine in 2018 it was £1699, so hasn't gone up that much due to inflation.

A brand new Marshall JVM410H - £1,339.00 from Andertons. Does the Plexi thing better than it has any right to. The 1987X Vintage Re-issue is
£1,499.00.

A Mesa Boogie Badlander 100 is £3,099.00 in the UK (once they finally land on our shores!) and it does a lot more than the Friedman Plex will, and as we know.... is almost forum royalty at this point. Not a massive price difference versus the Plex.

A Revv 100R is £2,799.00 and the 100P is £2,999.00 - and these are 3 channel amps, that I'm guessing would get very close to that classic cranked Plexi sound too.

That was just 4minutes of Googling. I'm sure there are a lot more to choose from. Suffice to say..... Friedman always consistently put me off with their pricing strategy. Their products aren't interesting enough for the prices they're charging. That isn't just amps either - checkout the pedalboards and the power supplies. Absolutely insane pricing there.

Comparing a Friedman with Marshall or Orange is sort of like comparing Lidl to Selfridges. For most people, there is little reason to buy a Friedman Plex at £2800 over a Marshall 1959HW at £1700.

The sort of amps that Friedman are in competition with is more like these:

Suhr SL68 MKII Head

Tube Amp Head for Electric Guitar Delivers the full range of classic British sounds at any volume, Hand-wired design, 1 Channel with 4 inputs (normal and treble), Power: 100 Watts, Pre-amp tubes: 3 x 12AX7, Power amp tubes: 2 x EL34, Controls:...

www.thomann.de

LEAD 55 | germinoamps

www.germinoamplification.com

Amplifiers

Metropoulos amplifiers available to customers worldwide for direct purchase.

store.metropoulos.net

 

[Life Eats Life]

Seems to me that in low volume businesses profit margin is EVERYTHING. You just don't sell at the volume
levels to justify low margins. Not sustainable. In high volume businesses, though, low margins can be hugely
and widely successful.

How about.. profit is not a bad word?

 

[Life Eats Life]

I don’t doubt Friedman’s component quality or the pcb but that is taking a lot less time to build.

It all radiates from the profit principle:
“Loans over tones”.
It’s about the no interest for 4 years.
Just get them in debted..let the food chain eat.
This sounds corny, but it’s the taproot of this entire
thread.

 

[Orvillain]

Comparing a Friedman with Marshall or Orange is sort of like comparing Lidl to Selfridges. For most people, there is little reason to buy a Friedman Plex at £2800 over a Marshall 1959HW at £1700.

I do agree that Friedman is the equivalent of Lidl, whereas Orange is the equivalent of Selfridges. But I wouldn't hold that against them. Lidl do have some nice biscuits!



The comparison was more because of the construction techniques. The Oranges and Marshalls are made in a very similar way to the Plex.

But the point really is just about pure price point competition. Your average guitarist isn't really that bothered if their amp says Friedman or Marshall on it. In fact most of them probably still hold Marshall in higher regard. Certainly for the UK market, I think guitarists are more likely to buy Marshall, Orange, or Matamp, or Hiwatt, rather than Friedman.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

The comparison was more because of the construction techniques. The Oranges and Marshalls are made in a very similar way to the Plex.

No they aren’t….. Aren’t most Orange amps made in the Asia these days? Friedman are using higher quality components across the board. The UK made Orange stuff and 1959HW are more comparable but still not really like for like. Generally speaking, Orange and Marshall are designed for building in huge quantities and as quickly as possible. Doesn’t make them any worse, it’s just a different design brief.

 

[Eagle]

No they aren’t….. Aren’t most Orange amps made in the Asia these days? Friedman are using higher quality components across the board. The UK made Orange stuff and 1959HW are more comparable but still not really like for like. Generally speaking, Orange and Marshall are designed for building in huge quantities and as quickly as possible. Doesn’t make them any worse, it’s just a different design brief.

This particular Friedman is also designed for a big reduction in build time.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

This particular Friedman is also designed for a big reduction in build time.

Most (if not all these days) Friedman’s are PCB based, the Runt and 20W amps are their “cheaper” ones that are probably closer to Orange/Marshall build quality. Although still arguably slightly better, and built on a much smaller scale.

 

[Eagle]

Most (if not all these days) Friedman’s are PCB based, the Runt and 20W amps are their “cheaper” ones that are probably closer to Orange/Marshall build quality. Although still arguably slightly better, and built on a much smaller scale.

But considerably more expensive than Marshall studios that are built in the UK.

 

[Orvillain]

Aren’t most Orange amps made in the Asia these days?

No man. The solid state stuff is made in China. As far as I'm aware, all of the tube stuff is still made in the UK, Borehamwood. The Rockerverb is definitely made in the UK in any case. Maybe not the little Terror amps, but not too sure.

Friedman are using higher quality components across the board. The UK made Orange stuff and 1959HW are more comparable but still not really like for like. Generally speaking, Orange and Marshall are designed for building in huge quantities and as quickly as possible. Doesn’t make them any worse, it’s just a different design brief.

Regardless of component quality, they're all PCB amps with chasis mounted pots. That's really what I'm getting at.


I seriously doubt the build quality of these Friedman amps is significantly better than Orange. Marshall I could probably agree with, as we know what their transformer nonsense has lead to recently.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Regardless of component quality, they're all PCB amps with chasis mounted pots. That's really what I'm getting at.

the whole discussion that’s rambling on is that PCB and mounted pots have no bearing on quality. Either method can be done well or poorly and have their own pro’s and cons. Having a PCB and mounted pots doesn’t automatically mean it’s built the same as a blackstar.

all of the tube stuff is still made in the UK, Borehamwood

unfortunately not the case TH series and some others are made in China

I seriously doubt the build quality of these Friedman amps is significantly better than Orange

I wouldn’t say significantly better, but definitely higher grade caps/resistors/transformers. Not that Marshall or Orange are poor quality either, and I personally don’t think it has much bearing on the sound either. But they’re not built like for like, so it would be mental to expect the pricing to be the same.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

There would be uproar if Friedman amps looked like this inside. I have no issue with it, but saying it’s built equivalent to a Friedman is just wrong

 

[Orvillain]

I think those pictures back up my point - I'm not seeing a nearly £1000 price difference with the Friedman, based on gut shots alone. YMMV.

The salient differences being:
- The two ribbon connectors in the Orange
- The pots being mounted directly to the board, whereas in the Friedman they're mounted to their own PCB, which is probably better for maintenance.

But I don't think those things and some potentially higher quality caps, resistors, and transformers, equating to that £1000 price differential.

I dunno... Friedman just fails to excite me. I don't think they're shit at all. But they seem overpriced for what they are IMHO.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

I think those pictures back up my point - I'm not seeing a nearly £1000 price difference with the Friedman, based on gut shots alone. YMMV.

The salient differences being:
- The two ribbon connectors in the Orange
- The pots being mounted directly to the board, whereas in the Friedman they're mounted to their own PCB, which is probably better for maintenance.

But I don't think those things and some potentially higher quality caps, resistors, and transformers, equating to that £1000 price differential.

I dunno... Friedman just fails to excite me. I don't think they're shit at all. But they seem overpriced for what they are IMHO.

Its not just those though. Chassis is higher quality. Transformers are made in the USA and "boutique" spec. PCB is thicker and high quality. Better brand of filter caps, Synergy caps for coupling and cathodes, better switches in the Friedman, Orange is full of quick connects.

Tbh, basically EVERYTHING about the construction in the Orange is upgraded in the Friedman. The HW Orange amps like the Custom 50 are a closer comparison.....and almost the same price if we account for prices in the same way (Orange Custom 50 is $3000 in America). There's no swindling going on by anyone, its just what stuff costs.

If we want to talk about amps being a ripoff then look no further than this clown: https://leejackson.com/metaltronix/

 

[Eagle]

Chassis mounting for power tubes should be a must in anything that claims quality.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Its not just those though. Chassis is higher quality. Transformers are made in the USA and "boutique" spec. PCB is thicker and high quality. Better brand of filter caps, Synergy caps for coupling and cathodes, better switches in the Friedman, Orange is full of quick connects.

Tbh, basically EVERYTHING about the construction in the Orange is upgraded in the Friedman. The HW Orange amps like the Custom 50 are a closer comparison.....and almost the same price if we account for prices in the same way (Orange Custom 50 is $3000 in America). There's no swindling going on by anyone, its just what stuff costs.

If we want to talk about amps being a ripoff then look no further than this clown: https://leejackson.com/metaltronix/

Who makes the x-formers? Mercury Magnetics? Heyboer?

 

[GuitarBilly74]

Chassis mounting for power tubes should be a must in anything that claims quality.

The power tubes sockets ARE mounted to the chassis.

This is another reply from Dave on the FB group group thread in question:

Really simple, i never said this was a hand wired amp.. We have had nothing but issues with pots in our other amps. weekly i have issues.. Had to move away from the pots we were using.. Also there is nothing cheap about how this is constructed.. Very thick boards, Plated thru holes, Belton tube sockets which are the best etc. Power tube sockets mounted firmly to the chassis.. From amp to amp these are way more consistent than all my other amps.. There is no issue here at all only positives.. Thanks Dave

 

[GuitarBilly74]

Who makes the x-formers? Mercury Magnetics? Heyboer?

Heyboer.

 

[GuitarBilly74]

If we want to talk about amps being a ripoff then look no further than this clown: https://leejackson.com/metaltronix/

Why are the Lee Jackson amps a ripoff?