Seems like no more good Pots for amps.........

[GuitarBilly74]

Functionality and Marshall tone? You would be hard pressed to beat a JVM410H.

I had one and couldn't sell it fast enough. Way too compressed, noisy and buggy. And I AM a Marshall fan boy, currently own 5 Marshalls and no Friedmans. But hard pass on the JVM.

 

[GuitarBilly74]

My point is there are lots of amps for a similar price, that offer a shit ton more functionality. Not everyone is really that hung up on the spirit of the thing. Some people just want an amp that does a lot of stuff.

And not everyone wants multi channel amps either. That's why there are options for everyone and every budget. Imagine that.

 

[Whizzinby]

I had one and couldn't sell it fast enough. Way too compressed, noisy and buggy. And I AM a Marshall fan boy, currently own 5 Marshalls and no Friedmans. But hard pass on the JVM.

We used to be friends.

 

[Orvillain]

And not everyone wants multi channel amps either.

I don't believe I said they did? In fact, I don't believe I said anything about multiple channels or not?

Imagine that.

Imagine having a polite exchange on a forum and coming to some sort of agreement that people have different desires and preferences. Yes. Imagine that!

 

[Whizzinby]

I don’t think the target for this is simply someone wanting a Plexi. You can get the big M logo cheaper. This is for Friedman fans who want a replica of the amp/variac setup that was the origin for everything he’s done. Anyone in the market for a Friedman amp already had the opp to get the M version(s) and might already own one or seven of them anyway. lol He’s serving his fanbase and if he happens to attract any other plexi-curious ( ) customers it’s a bonus.

 

[GuitarBilly74]

I don't believe I said they did? In fact, I don't believe I said anything about multiple channels or not?


Imagine having a polite exchange on a forum and coming to some sort of agreement that people have different desires and preferences. Yes. Imagine that!

Well, first, I wasn't impolite anywhere or even close to it. So there's that.
But ok the amp is not for you. That's fine. I am not sure it's for me either, haven't tried it yet. That's different than the premise of this thread which is "no good pots, PCB is bad" etc...
A lot of the posts here do imply that he's ripping people off with cheap construction and that's a loaded accusation to make over pictures, which is the extent of the experience that you, I and 99% of the posters on this thread have with this amp so far.

You do seem to have a bias against friedman and apparently, with anyone that disagrees with you.

 

[Orvillain]

Well, first, I wasn't impolite anywhere or even close to it. So there's that.
....
You do seem to have a bias against friedman and apparently, with anyone that disagrees with you.

No I don't, and this comment is quite impolite; particularly when you don't know anything about me.

For the record, I would love a BE-100 Deluxe. That amp is more my thing. At £3999 however, I would have to think long and hard about whether it really gave me anything that my other amps don't.

I have many amps and multi-effects units, and have had many more over the years. I hold loyalty to no single company, save maybe Line6 because those guys are just awesome people.

I have no problem with The Plex other than price point. The build quality is fine. Comparable to a lot of other amps I've seen inside of.

 

[GuitarBilly74]

No I don't, and this comment is quite impolite; particularly when you don't know anything about me.

For the record, I would love a BE-100 Deluxe. That amp is more my thing. At £3999 however, I would have to think long and hard about whether it really gave me anything that my other amps don't.

I have many amps and multi-effects units, and have had many more over the years. I hold loyalty to no single company, save maybe Line6 because those guys are just awesome people.

I have no problem with The Plex other than price point. The build quality is fine. Comparable to a lot of other amps I've seen inside of.

I don't think it is impolite, it's an observation and you if say otherwise I have no problem standing corrected.

I had a BE100 and it was not for me. Sounded a bit too refined, which is part of the Friedman thing, I guess. I do love the Runt and Dirty Shirley amps though. Those are somehow more organic sounding. I want to try the JEL 50 when it's released. So idk. Like I said, I have 5 Marshalls and no Friedmans at the moment.

My problem with this type of thread (not you in particular) is not the "it's not for me" thing, which is fine.

It's the "peanut gallery" mentality of some, bashing something they haven't even seen in person let alone played, just based on low resolution pictures. It's a common thing on the internet and frankly quite toxic.

But no amp/brand is for everyone. That goes without saying. But that's different than what's going on here and the tenor of the OP and subsequent posts (in general, not you in particular).

 

[6CA7-A]

I think B4 forums & internet we guitar players just played guitar. At least my friends & i did.
Sounds resonable.

 

[Tanax]

I have a 1987X and I love it so I agree that the Marshalls - especially with the new USA pricing- are great value.

But the Friedman does have a lot more flexibility with the built-in variac, PPIMV master volume, switchable bright caps on both channels etc. So I don't know if it's fair to compare the 1987x/1959HW to the Friedman. It would take quite a bit of modding to get the Marshalls to do everything the Friedman does, which add cost (and probably also devalue the amp), especially if you have to hire someone to do it.

I think a more accurate comparison would be the Suhr SL67, which has similar functionality. It's handwired and it costs about $150 more, which is actually accurate to what Friedman said the Plex would cost if he handwired it.

I'm not a Friedman fan boy (the only Friedman product I currently own is the IR-D, I recently had 2 Dirty Shirley's but sold them), but I tend to agree with his reasoning behind building the amp the way he did. PCB when build correctly is very consistent indeed.

I agree with this. I think the issue is that you're paying a pretty HEFTY amount over a Marshall here to get those features built-in.

The PPIMV won't really let you practice in your apartment so you'll need an attenuator anyway (and most want that either way). An attenuator can also work with ALL your amps, not being built into just one amp. I'm convinced that a separate attenuator is way superior in all ways (except portability) to having a master volume.

The bright switches are cool, but nothing that can't be done with a €200 EQ pedal or TS.

The variac is the only thing that would be difficult to add afterwards.
But to pay €3600 for the Friedman Plex vs €1600 for the Marshall 1987x is, again, a HEFTY amount for the little it gives. That's €2000 extra.

You can fit a Fryette PS100 attenuator in that, plus TS and EQ pedal and still have money to spare - plus those pedals and attenuator will work with all your amps.

No I don't, and this comment is quite impolite; particularly when you don't know anything about me.

For the record, I would love a BE-100 Deluxe. That amp is more my thing. At £3999 however, I would have to think long and hard about whether it really gave me anything that my other amps don't.

I have many amps and multi-effects units, and have had many more over the years. I hold loyalty to no single company, save maybe Line6 because those guys are just awesome people.

I have no problem with The Plex other than price point. The build quality is fine. Comparable to a lot of other amps I've seen inside of.

I agree with this. Using PCB is fine, I don't care. It sounds great, just like a Marshall. Great format, 50W is IMO ideal. The problem is the price point.

The only thing is that I guess the build quality isn't anything special from what I've seen. Not bad, but not "insanely great" either that you would expect from a boutique company.

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Not bad, but not "insanely great" either that you would expect from a boutique company.

Just out of curiosity, what aspects of the build would need to be improved to make its build quality worthy of the price tag?

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Just out of curiosity, what aspects of the build would need to be improved to make its build quality worthy of the price tag?

 

[MirrorProfiles]

View attachment 23477

so whats the actual improvement for you? The pots and turret board vs PCB? What issues would the Friedman PCB cause that this alleviates?

If its just about gutshot porn, then something like this pisses all over it:

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

so whats the actual improvement for you? The pots and turret board vs PCB? What issues would the Friedman PCB cause that this alleviates?

If its just about gutshot porn, then something like this pisses all over it: View attachment 23478

Take a look at parts used.

It slays me how the opinions are 100% confirmation bias.

But as far as gut shot porn goes I dig what you posted. What is it.

And when it comes to amps from high gain guys I can get a Diezel VH2 or Paul for 1800€

Or even a Bogner xtc 50 watter for 600 less

 

[MirrorProfiles]

What is it.

And when it comes to amps from high gain guys I can get a Diezel VH2 or Paul for 1800€

Or even a Bogner xtc 50 watter for 600 less

Bartell amps, he builds killer stuff.

Diezel's are comparatively cheap in Europe for sure, for a "boutique" brand they make more sense than the likes of Soldano/Bogner/Friedman over here. The problem is I like the sound of them less. They're built well, PCB's done right.

Bogner are hideously priced in the UK, rare to find any of the big boy amps from them for much under £3k even used. I was REALLY lucky with my Uberschall

 

[Whizzinby]

Historically speaking, what’s the aversion to PCB? The circuit either works or it doesn’t, no? Is it any less durable?

 

[spawnofthesith]

Historically speaking, what’s the aversion to PCB? The circuit either works or it doesn’t, no? Is it any less durable?

 

[MirrorProfiles]

Historically speaking, what’s the aversion to PCB? The circuit either works or it doesn’t, no? Is it any less durable?

Main downsides can be:

- a pain to remove, some have the entire amp essentially on one pcb, so you have to remove every single jack and knob and remove a load of wires to remove it. Some tech’s will charge more for the extra time it takes to do this
- flimsy PCB’s. Some can only take so much wear and tear before traces start to lift.
- poor design. Some use too thin traces for the amount of electricity passing through. Some parts may not have the best layout so signal might bleed where it’s not supposed to. Some might have components that are subject to changing due to heat next to hot components. Mesa just dump things anywhere and everywhere, lots of stuff might not even be easily accessible or labelled.
- some have components on the opposite side of the board (ENGL) so you have to remove everything to access them

All of these things aren’t really inherent to PCB’s, it’s just bad design. A good (well designed) PCB wouldn’t suffer from any of these issues. FWIW lots of the Marshalls from 1973 onwards use pretty crappy PCB’s by modern standards. Most Mesa’s are even worse because they’re using ancient machines to make them.

Because they are used everywhere and allow for things to be built faster, cheaper and to varying standards, PCB’s have an association of being bad. When done right they have a ton of advantages and any sensible amp builder is generally going to opt for that route if it’s an option.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Main downsides can be:

- a pain to remove, some have the entire amp essentially on one pcb, so you have to remove every single jack and knob and remove a load of wires to remove it. Some tech’s will charge more for the extra time it takes to do this
- flimsy PCB’s. Some can only take so much wear and tear before traces start to lift.
- poor design. Some use too thin traces for the amount of electricity passing through. Some parts may not have the best layout so signal might bleed where it’s not supposed to. Some might have components that are subject to changing due to heat next to hot components. Mesa just dump things anywhere and everywhere, lots of stuff might not even be easily accessible or labelled.
- some have components on the opposite side of the board (ENGL) so you have to remove everything to access them

All of these things aren’t really inherent to PCB’s, it’s just bad design. A good (well designed) PCB wouldn’t suffer from any of these issues. FWIW lots of the Marshalls from 1973 onwards use pretty crappy PCB’s by modern standards. Most Mesa’s are even worse because they’re using ancient machines to make them.

Because they are used everywhere and allow for things to be built faster, cheaper and to varying standards, PCB’s have an association of being bad. When done right they have a ton of advantages and any sensible amp builder is generally going to opt for that route if it’s an option.

I’ll add a solid physical connection and then soldered over parts stuffed in a board held in place by solder.

I have actually no issue with PCBs, but I do not like board mounted tube sockets and especially ribbon connectors.

 

[Ed DeGenaro]

Bartell amps, he builds killer stuff.

Diezel's are comparatively cheap in Europe for sure, for a "boutique" brand they make more sense than the likes of Soldano/Bogner/Friedman over here. The problem is I like the sound of them less. They're built well, PCB's done right.

Bogner are hideously priced in the UK, rare to find any of the big boy amps from them for much under £3k even used. I was REALLY lucky with my Uberschall

I love Mark’s stuff.