Question about Intervals

[bryarblue72]

Hello all:

I am mostly a beginner and have been learning pentatonic, diatonic scales and the like. I heard about using 3rds, 6ths, etc., in music so I started to work out what I *think* is right on the fretboard using the C Major scale.

I started by overlaying the notes of the C Major scale on the fretboard and then using intervals of 3rds I mapped out the 1st and 2nd strings. Interestingly the note pairs match the 1 and 3 notes of the chord triads shown in the C Major Chord scale (I inserted the associated Chord at the bottom at the centerline between the notes and also noted the 1,3,5 notes of the triad.

Two questions:
1. Am I even remotely right in what I have laid out for the 3rds for the first two strings? I.e., is my logic correct?
2. If I play these pairs of thirds notes along with a backing track in C Major playing the correct pair with the actual chord being played on the backing track, of course they sound like they go with it but is that really what you are doing with these thirds?

Thank you in advance!

 

[TJontheRoad]

Welcome to TGF

These two videos I made a while back will help you.

 

[bryarblue72]

Welcome to TGF

These two videos I made a while back will help you.

Thank you! I will check them out now.

 

[AFKAEjay(retired)]

1. Am I even remotely right in what I have laid out for the 3rds for the first two strings? I.e., is my logic correct?

Yes, your observations are correct…I’m not sure about the logic.
In my mind starting with the fretboard instead of basic musical principles confuses things a wee bit.
The guitar has the pitfall to do everything visual, and forget about the musical context…and end up pushing dots instead of sounds.

Tip:
Understand what makes a major scale a major scale (the distance between notes, whole/half steps)
Understand what chords, of what quality (maj/min/dim) can be constructed from the major scale..
C E G
D F A
E G B
Etc etc…get the cadence?
Understand what the interval between root, third, fifth is …for maj, min and dim chords.

When you get the above…your next step is to apply it to the fretboard, based on the intervals between scale notes and chords. And yeah…first you will be cursing like a kozak cause it’s hard brainwork..but you will learn to play whole steps, minor 3rds, major 3rds, fifths on the neck.

Tbh…I’d be carefull using paper and visualizations, you are at risk of loosing the connection to musical properties. Play a scale based on your knowledge of its structure, not based on memorizing a shape. Same for chords or intervals. Harder at first…but it will pay off!

 

[bryarblue72]

Yes, your observations are correct…I’m not sure about the logic.
In my mind starting with the fretboard instead of basic musical principles confuses things a wee bit.
The guitar has the pitfall to do everything visual, and forget about the musical context…and end up pushing dots instead of sounds.

Tip:
Understand what makes a major scale a major scale (the distance between notes, whole/half steps)
Understand what chords, of what quality (maj/min/dim) can be constructed from the major scale..
C E G
D F A
E G B
Etc etc…get the cadence?
Understand what the interval between root, third, fifth is …for maj, min and dim chords.

When you get the above…your next step is to apply it to the fretboard, based on the intervals between scale notes and chords. And yeah…first you will be cursing like a kozak cause it’s hard brainwork..but you will learn to play whole steps, minor 3rds, major 3rds, fifths on the neck.

Tbh…I’d be carefull using paper and visualizations, you are at risk of loosing the connection to musical properties. Play a scale based on your knowledge of its structure, not based on memorizing a shape. Same for chords or intervals. Harder at first…but it will pay off!

Thank you so much for the detailed response!

I see what you are talking about on the "cadence" you described to build the I ii iii IV V vi vii chords in the the chord scale.... So if I am understanding it here for a chord you have the base note of the scale and then there is the minor 3rd (3 semitones) or major 3rd (4 semitones) and finally the perfect fifth (7 semitones). So then the idea is to not try to "map" them out on the fretboard but to get to "know" all the fretboard notes and the intervals between them and finally to be able to utilize those intervals in a creative way to produce the sounds/progressions you are trying to achieve? Gee, I feel like I have had a disconnect the whole time I've been trying to learn how to play. Over the last couple of years my guitar teacher has had me learn a bunch of basics like scale/chord construction, pentatonic/diatonic scales, 2 pentatonic lead patterns, and other basics but I have had a total disconnect on how to use it all. My teacher has somewhat avoided taking about theory.

Am I understanding better what you are saying? If so, then I wonder if there is a resource somewhere that will help walk me through how to apply it?

Thanks.

 

[AFKAEjay(retired)]

Thank you so much for the detailed response!

I see what you are talking about on the "cadence" you described to build the I ii iii IV V vi vii chords in the the chord scale.... So if I am understanding it here for a chord you have the base note of the scale and then there is the minor 3rd (3 semitones) or major 3rd (4 semitones) and finally the perfect fifth (7 semitones). So then the idea is to not try to "map" them out on the fretboard but to get to "know" all the fretboard notes and the intervals between them and finally to be able to utilize those intervals in a creative way to produce the sounds/progressions you are trying to achieve? Gee, I feel like I have had a disconnect the whole time I've been trying to learn how to play. Over the last couple of years my guitar teacher has had me learn a bunch of basics like scale/chord construction, pentatonic/diatonic scales, 2 pentatonic lead patterns, and other basics but I have had a total disconnect on how to use it all. My teacher has somewhat avoided taking about theory.

Am I understanding better what you are saying? If so, then I wonder if there is a resource somewhere that will help walk me through how to apply it?

Thanks.

I THINK you got it
And yeah…a lot of teachers…and 99% of the internet teaches guitar based on shapes…cause it’s low hanging fruit..and it sells easy.
But mind you…all other instrument teaching starts with the musical workings.

Basically it’s standard music theory…and you need to find a way to translate that to your instrument…so it can become a bridge between your musical ideas/ear..and your fingers.

Find your own exercises…play a scale all over the neck,,play a scale on one string..on 2 strings, play the arpeggio of the II chord in every position, toggle between the arpeggio of the II and the I cause that happens to me in a tune you like.
Approach chord notes from a scale note above, approach chromaticly from beneath. Play games with the knowledge of how scales and chords are constructed…and do it in small bites.

The theory is not the hard part..find ways that are fun to explore it on your instruments…it’s a game intended to sound good

 

[unix-guy]

Thank you so much for the detailed response!

I see what you are talking about on the "cadence" you described to build the I ii iii IV V vi vii chords in the the chord scale.... So if I am understanding it here for a chord you have the base note of the scale and then there is the minor 3rd (3 semitones) or major 3rd (4 semitones) and finally the perfect fifth (7 semitones). So then the idea is to not try to "map" them out on the fretboard but to get to "know" all the fretboard notes and the intervals between them and finally to be able to utilize those intervals in a creative way to produce the sounds/progressions you are trying to achieve? Gee, I feel like I have had a disconnect the whole time I've been trying to learn how to play. Over the last couple of years my guitar teacher has had me learn a bunch of basics like scale/chord construction, pentatonic/diatonic scales, 2 pentatonic lead patterns, and other basics but I have had a total disconnect on how to use it all. My teacher has somewhat avoided taking about theory.

Am I understanding better what you are saying? If so, then I wonder if there is a resource somewhere that will help walk me through how to apply it?

Thanks.

Sounds like you've made the connection!

Next add the 4th chord tone to derive all the 7th chords.

You can continue on to 9ths, 11ths, 13ths when you feel adventurous.

All of these chords are created by "stacking" 3rds from the given scale.

1 3 5
1 3 5 7
1 3 5 7 9
Etc

Of course you'll run out of fingers

 

[JasonE]

The thing that I have seen most teachers struggle with is finding a way to get you from learning the theory to actually using it on the fretboard. I had a pretty good teacher and he struggled with this. I went to another pretty good teacher and he also struggled with it. I had to work through it on my own, which both of them kind of said to me. It took some work for me to get there. Once I started getting it I could pretty easily see where they could have coached me through it and got me there a lot faster. I went on a bit of a mission after that to start teaching and taking on people as students that were struggling with this same thing. I had to teach some of them more theory to fill in holes in their learning and then work them through actually being able to use what they either just learned or something they have known for a while but couldn't figure out how to use. It was a pretty satisfying thing to teach the people I taught. It was great to see people connect the dots and watch their playing take off. I heard many times that nobody had been able to get them to actually using this knowledge until they started spending time with me. Figuring out how to get the rubber to meet the road can be a long drawn out process for sure. It was for me.