ian_dissonance
Shredder
- Messages
- 2,171
If one folds the goalposts into new shapes and moves them around enough they might get someone to agree with half a point they almost made.
Plugin Piracy Thread
- Thread starter [Nathan]
- Start date
I'll guess you're talking about me. If it is me, could you please quote where I was justifying stealing? If you got that somewhere I need to correct it, because that's not what I believe.
Why not trying to answer the post I made addressing you directly instead of going for indirect attacks?
ian_dissonance
Shredder
- Messages
- 2,171
Because I’m not playing the what about this game with something that is really simple. If the software costs money, pay for it. That’s it, that’s whole thing.
I think it's perfectly reasonable to have conversation about the ethics of the subject at hand and closely related ones. Yes, the main subject changed a bit, isn't that normal in conversations? I don't understand why the animosity because, if you're uninterested in the conversation, you just don't answer.
You said I'm justifying theft, and I'm pretty sure you're smart enough to already understand I'm not - and yet I replied politely to you. In return, instead of trying to make an effort to understand and respond - or even 100% ignoring - you go for indirect attacks. Why is that?
ian_dissonance
Shredder
- Messages
- 2,171
Nobody is attacking you. I’m not engaging in roundabout nonsense in this conversation because there will always be a further line to draw. You’re just pussyfooting around the actual conversation in hopes of some “gotcha” and I don’t care. If the software costs money at the time you want to use it, buy it.
- Messages
- 10,253
This would have been a cool route to take, not that they still couldn't of course. I also seem to remember TC Electronic had a plugins rack unit like 25 yrs or more ago. It takes a load off the computer too.Fractal had to know it would be cracked. Nobody could release a plug and be naive enough to think it wouldn’t. If the crack is going to force a pause in future releases then it does make one wonder how thought through the entire endeavor was.
That said, I’ve been posting this picture for YEARS.
The world exhausts me.
There's no gotcha. That's how you operate in conversation? Your goal is come out on top and that's it? Maybe it's been done to you, that's why you're so defensive and I'm sorry, but that's not how I go about having conversations. Even though I may try to point out an error in logic or fact checking, there's no "gotcha".
Like I said, related to the topic. Pirating software vs cloning/profiling software. The vast majority seem to think the first one is bad, but things get a bit weird with the second one. Why is that? That's all I'm trying to talk about. Yes, yes, sure... Not 100% on topic, I get it. Still, IMO, related.
And back to the gotcha... There's none. Here's my gray area for you. I'm talking about it as I'm playing through a capture I made of a plugin (that I own) that is a digital model of an amp from a company that did not consent to have this model made, and even worse, the manufacturer was very vocal about hating clones and would actively try to prevent cloning - not sure how he'd feel about digital ones, I'm pretty sure he would hate it even more so. How do I feel about it? I'm not even sure...
*actually a little bad after writing it so bluntly
Mongillo19
Rock Star
- Messages
- 7,381
Icons Marshawn ammiright
sashimi
Roadie
- Messages
- 842
There really isn’t any grey area. Cracked software is not equivalent to profiling or capturing a tone. One is stealing, the other is not.There's no gotcha. That's how you operate in conversation? Your goal is come out on top and that's it? Maybe it's been done to you, that's why you're so defensive and I'm sorry, but that's not how I go about having conversations. Even though I may try to point out an error in logic or fact checking, there's no "gotcha".
Like I said, related to the topic. Pirating software vs cloning/profiling software. The vast majority seem to think the first one is bad, but things get a bit weird with the second one. Why is that? That's all I'm trying to talk about. Yes, yes, sure... Not 100% on topic, I get it. Still, IMO, related.
And back to the gotcha... There's none. Here's my gray area for you. I'm talking about it as I'm playing through a capture I made of a plugin (that I own) that is a digital model of an amp from a company that did not consent to have this model made, and even worse, the manufacturer was very vocal about hating clones and would actively try to prevent cloning - not sure how he'd feel about digital ones, I'm pretty sure he would hate it even more so. How do I feel about it? I'm not even sure...
*actually a little bad after writing it so bluntly
sashimi
Roadie
- Messages
- 842
I think the reason you are getting such a poor reception to your ‘but what about profiling’ argument is that it is obvious you are trying to tiptoe around justifying using cracked software. You aren’t fooling anyone except yourself, we can all see what you’re doing. I would be really surprised if you’re not using cracked software after reading these posts.
- Messages
- 10,725
I can take an analog synth, or a digital synth that generates waveforms in realtime (not using PCM sources) and I can re-record those oscillators and make and release a sample pack; legally.
I cannot do the same with a synth that uses a PCM source, because it is a sample.
So your clone/capture/profile comparison is dead in the water. They are not the equivalent of PCM sources.
- Messages
- 10,725
The people who own the 11R source code - inMusic Brands - would not be interested in supporting your old Digidesign 11R. Sell it and buy a Headrush. It is the same shit.
paisleywookiee
Rock Star
- Messages
- 9,809
- Messages
- 10,725
Pretty much!!Man, you’re blunt. Do you talk like that in real life? I hope so.
GuitarBilly74
Roadie
- Messages
- 900
Or buy an 11R that was updated, they're dirt cheap these days.
At any rate, none of this is a good justification for cracking software, just mental gymnastics and false equivalencies.
Equivalent as in equal, sure, it's sort of obvious.
The fact you don't copy it 100% is irrelevant. You copy the main functionality in a number of useful scenarios (settings) and in a similar format (plugin) without any compensation or even consent from the person/company that created it. That's plenty justification for me to call it unethical.
From the perspective of the developer he sees one using a full copy of his product, the other one using a plugin that has about 10 (or as much as one is willing to make) presets in his product - in both cases, zero compensation. Again, fully agree they are not the same, but I've yet to see a good justification that makes one stealing and the other one perfectly ethical.
I don't use pirate software and I think it's wrong in the vast majority of cases - I've given an example where I'd use it though, just read the thread. I ask questions about this subject because I feel very strongly about the importance of being able to justify my moral stances. That doesn't seem to be the same for you, because the moment you're challenged on your positions, instead of defending them logically, you start accusing me of stuff for absolutely no reason.
Legality is not the same as morality. Not arguing law. There's plenty of people getting fucked under the law.
Never asked for support, just basic good faith - which I'm not entitled to either coming from them, sure. It's not, I tried it.
I don't live in the US or anywhere a used 11R is "cheap".
Would love to see you actually engaging with a few arguments instead acting so dismissive.
- Messages
- 10,725
This thread is about legality. If you want to argue morality, post on Reddit with the other twox'ers.
GuitarBilly74
Roadie
- Messages
- 900
It's wrong in all cases. Not in most cases except the one you need LOL
