Progressive_disclosure
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I can understand going for iLok but find it inexcusable to not give you as a customer the option of usb or cloud. That’s just shooting yourself in the foot.
Ownhammer Studio Standard Plugin
- Thread starter KingsXJJ
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I don't understand the business logic of this.
I mean, I don't really undestand the business logic of going iLok anyway. Why would you give away a ton of your revenue for copy protection, when ultimately, these cracker groups could easily crack your plugin. iLok2 was cracked in 2015. Whatever improvements they might've done since then... ultimately, your plugin is always at risk of being cracked.
laxu
Rock Star
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Yeah I understand that too..but it doesn't make me want to buy any Fractal cabs when I can't install them on a hardware product so they work like the existing DynaCabs, and I can't use CabLab to create IRs to use with other devices.
Hence ML Sound Lab MIKKO 2 is my cab sim of choice.
laxu
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Does support for iLok Cloud cost extra for the developer?
Yeah I'd imagine there is no business advantage to protect what is ultimately a niche plugin. The people who would use the cracked version were not going to buy it in the first place. We are not talking about some several hundred bucks suite here, but a $60 plugin.
Dom Mcsweeney
Roadie
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Yeah, I don't think the costs are disclosed on the pace website, but I've heard it does cost more for the extra license types.
I think also another part of this is time spent on customer support (iLok handle the USB stuff, but not the local/cloud stuff), and the alternative is spend alot more extra time developing and hosting a licensing system that is not pace.
Which, unfortunately means, if you can't afford the investment into more licensing from Pace, or don't want to take on supporting more problems, you are stuck in a rock and hard place because - no one enjoys iLok, but at least the free machine / cloud licensing suits some people.
I do get why licensing through iLok is a good plan if you don't have the time to do your own, but, I think it would be a much better investment to add local/cloud to your package from pace, because alot more people would use it then.
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I don't think so, no. But I've never dealt directly with PACE. I do know that JUCE got sold to PACE a few years back; which was ... certainly a thing.
You've just got to have enough detterents, without wasting years building a crap copy protection system that everyone hates. The negative impact to a brand because of their copy protection is often overlooked; and I'd wager could cost more in lost sales than piracy. But it depends on the implementation.
Dom Mcsweeney
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I've heard the opposite, but can't confirm either.
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We must battle to the death. There can be only one.
MirrorProfiles
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IMO iLok is the best protection out there (even though it still gets hacked, it’s more of a PITA and they’re better protected).
I think it’s well worth just having a physical iLok still too, the cloud version can be iffy. Machine authorisation works great, ideally Ownhammer would support all 3 though.
I do think that the trust needs to work both ways from the user and Ownhammer - I know IR’s can be tricky to protect, but paying customers shouldn’t all be treated like they’re only there to steal. The customer should have some assurances that the software can be installed and runs well on their own rig, that there’s no major bugs or issues stopping the software working as it should, that it will receive updates etc.
I honestly WAY prefer iLok over each plugin brand using its own protection, it’s just so much easier to get things up and running on a new computer.
I think it’s well worth just having a physical iLok still too, the cloud version can be iffy. Machine authorisation works great, ideally Ownhammer would support all 3 though.
I do think that the trust needs to work both ways from the user and Ownhammer - I know IR’s can be tricky to protect, but paying customers shouldn’t all be treated like they’re only there to steal. The customer should have some assurances that the software can be installed and runs well on their own rig, that there’s no major bugs or issues stopping the software working as it should, that it will receive updates etc.
I honestly WAY prefer iLok over each plugin brand using its own protection, it’s just so much easier to get things up and running on a new computer.
![[Nathan]](/data/avatars/m/0/613.jpg?1726885163){kind=avatar}
[Nathan]
Roadie
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I'm fine with ilok it makes sense, I dont think the current iteration of ilok has been cracked. I just looked at my ilok account from 2020 and 31 out of 32 that I have there are working with cloud, this is the first requiring a USB dongle.
This. Im talking to them and if they say cloud is coming I'm happy to wait a couple weeks within reason (id be ok if they quote under 6... above it, pass), alternatively a refund. If neither of those happen then that's going to be a pretty poor outcome.
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I do use iLok2 - when I have to.
It isn't my preferred solution. My preferred solution is either a simple and user-controllable challenge response system, or a simple serial key.
I think Toontrack and XLNAudio handle it very well. Challenge response, but you can clear out your authorization slots if you need to, so you're not left hanging waiting for tech support.
Waves isn't too bad, although Waves Central has gotten more and more unintuitive over the years. But same sort of deal, they allow you a certain number of de-authorizations, so you're in control.
As a potential developer, I just don't want the extra costs associated with supporting iLok. They're very expensive I believe.
Moonbase seems to be a good alternative.
It isn't my preferred solution. My preferred solution is either a simple and user-controllable challenge response system, or a simple serial key.
I think Toontrack and XLNAudio handle it very well. Challenge response, but you can clear out your authorization slots if you need to, so you're not left hanging waiting for tech support.
Waves isn't too bad, although Waves Central has gotten more and more unintuitive over the years. But same sort of deal, they allow you a certain number of de-authorizations, so you're in control.
As a potential developer, I just don't want the extra costs associated with supporting iLok. They're very expensive I believe.
Moonbase seems to be a good alternative.
Dom Mcsweeney
Roadie
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I believe that iLok costs a developer anything from $500-2000 a year to support, not including the initial setup fees. Then you also pay for activation fees I believe.
If you want more behemoth companies in the plugin space, not doing anything very innovative, and just continually milking the consumer for old tech; then sure.... keep supporting iLok !!
But if you want new and fresh ideas - and dare I say it, more diversity - in the plugin space... then you must acknowledge that the barriers to entry need to be continually refined for that to happen. It is a lot more expensive to start a plugin company today in 2025 than it was in 2005; and that's despite all of the extra development tools that exist.
In 2005 you didn't have a JUCE to rely on. You had to code your own in-house toolkit, pretty much.
laxu
Rock Star
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Are the main tools today basically JUCE and QT?
MirrorProfiles
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It’s really up to each company to factor in and decide. Ultimately PACE provide a service that’s optional, many end up doing it their own way.
$2000 a year is like 40 sales of $50. Implementing a proprietary protection AND keeping it up to date and secure has its own issues too.
I think Waves, Toontrack, NI, Plugin Alliance etc all have good installers but it’s still easier to use iLok IMO. When it’s a proprietary one, it’s always a case of searching old emails, finding login details, and trying to remember what each particular bit of software needs. ILok you just plugin the usb dongle and install the software and it works.
I don’t mind paying a bit extra if the experience is improved AND it means the company is well protected to look after and maintain their products.
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JUCE is still huge. QT in use, but lots of people moving towards WebView tech right now too.
There are also things like HISE - which is what I've been using for a year or so now - which is effectively a JS style wrapper around JUCE; with a lot of premade tools for you to hit the ground running.
I've been learning C++ recently, and with a bit of ChatGPT to assist, I've done some pretty cool things for some plugin concepts I have.
I'm very interested to see where the Cmajor project goes. That could be quite a nice way to get out of the hegemonic frameworks. I went to a talk last year where the devs presented it; they resurrected Pro52 and rebuilt it in Cmajor, with the UI and everything. Was quite impressive.
ian_dissonance
Shredder
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I did not know TBT had an IR loader. Kirchhoff is my current favorite plugin. Might have to check that out just to have it, lol.
laxu
Rock Star
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Took a quick look at the example code and that seems like a very nice way to build them.
It's interesting to see how there are many projects that use Javascript and its various frameworks to build the UI. I can understand why. I've looked at JUCE documentation and immediately hated that I was thrown into messy looking class descriptions.
MirrorProfiles
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Cabinetron is excellent, especially as STL Libra seems to be abandonware these days. My only gripe with Cabinetron is it takes up so much screen space with (potentially) empty slots and parameters that won’t get used. Most of the time I’m only using one row, and I don’t think i’ve ever used more than 3 (let alone 8).
It’s great for typing to search for IR’s and all the other features though.
It does baffle me a little that OH didn’t include (at least) machine authorisation though, given a large proportion of their customer base probably won’t own a physical ilok. And a demo should go without saying.
There’s obvious the risk of the IR’s getting out, but ultimately the experience of using the plugin should make it WAY more appealing than navigating individual files. Sort of how it’s just easier to pay for netflix or spotify than deal with stealing it
It’s great for typing to search for IR’s and all the other features though.
It does baffle me a little that OH didn’t include (at least) machine authorisation though, given a large proportion of their customer base probably won’t own a physical ilok. And a demo should go without saying.
There’s obvious the risk of the IR’s getting out, but ultimately the experience of using the plugin should make it WAY more appealing than navigating individual files. Sort of how it’s just easier to pay for netflix or spotify than deal with stealing it
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nicolasrivera
Roadie
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Unfortunately I did not see that, just that it uses iLok. Paid stand now i can not use it. It's asking for the archaic iLok dungle! I have over 100 licences with iLok, none has ever asked for a USB thing. Unless I did something wrong, I just wasted $59 and will not spend another $54 on that dam dongle.
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