Okay... so if wood doesn't matter.... and scale length doesn't matter....

[Eagle]

Get a great neck and put it on a body that is dissonant with the resonance in the neck and it’s not going to sound good. There will be loud and dead notes all over and some just won’t sustain. Get the wood wrong in either direction and it’s going to be a problem.
Maple necks don’t vary much in mass so if you see this problem you can only fix it properly with a different body that SUBSTANTIALLY moves the resonance away from the neck. Swapping necks hardly ever moves it far enough and although it will be better it’s not a 100% fix.

 

[Cirrus]

The neck is important but it's not the whole equation. I recently moved a neck, pickguard/pickups and hardware from an alder body to a mahogany body and the guitar definitely sounds warmer now.

It's silly to isolate any ONE part as being the most important factor, every part matters to some degree. It's a bit like cooking in the sense that you have tried and true recipes and every ingredient counts.

Let's not go crazy here goose, I'm talking about the neck as, generally speaking, the single biggest contributor to midrange resonance in a solid body guitar, and I think that's easy to demonstrate. It doesn't take anything away from your anecdote - I think the body matters too. Plenty of times I've had pickups that work great in any mahogany body guitar and sound sterile in maple capped ones, for example.

But I think, and this is just a hunch, that the body wood matters more for transient response, and the neck matters more for the resonances that occur over the whole sustain/ decay of the string vibration.

 

[Eagle]

Let's not go crazy here goose, I'm talking about the neck as, generally speaking, the single biggest contributor to midrange resonance in a solid body guitar, and I think that's easy to demonstrate. It doesn't take anything away from your anecdote - I think the body matters too. Plenty of times I've had pickups that work great in any mahogany body guitar and sound sterile in maple capped ones, for example.

But I think, and this is just a hunch, that the body wood matters more for transient response, and the neck matters more for the resonances that occur over the whole sustain/ decay of the string vibration.

The better the guitar is built the more wood matters, and yes the fundamental starts out vibrating the neck so it's character is imprinted on the attack.

 

[Sascha Franck]

But I think, and this is just a hunch, that the body wood matters more for transient response, and the neck matters more for the resonances that occur over the whole sustain/ decay of the string vibration.

While I agree on pretty much everything else you've said, I think the sound of the entire decay phase of any tone is pretty much irrelevant.
It's an easy to find out about thing, just record a whole bunch of single tones (it's a little different with chords, so I recommend starting with single notes), then trim away their first milliseconds completely (namely the entire attack phase) so you only end up with decaying notes. Even fade all of them in a bit. Then compare them. Can you still tell pickup differences? Yeah (but not even very clear anymore). Can you tell one Strat from another in case the used pickups are sort of comparable? Perhaps (but really just perhaps) in a direct ABX test, but once you mix different notes, no way anymore.
What I'm saying is that, say, 90% of the tonal differences happen in the attack phase. Is it strat-y quack or tele-ish twang? The attack will tell, the decay very likely won't.
Things get a bit blurred once overdrive and especially (real) feedback come into play. Quite obviously, a resonant guitar will feedback easier and differently than a solid body one. So there's defenitely that. There might as well be some overtones giving some things away, but still, the largest amount of tonal differences is coming from the attack phase (which, see above, can easily be tested). And I think the neck is the most relevant player here as well.

 

[Eagle]

While I agree on pretty much everything else you've said, I think the sound of the entire decay phase of any tone is pretty much irrelevant.
It's an easy to find out about thing, just record a whole bunch of single tones (it's a little different with chords, so I recommend starting with single notes), then trim away their first milliseconds completely (namely the entire attack phase) so you only end up with decaying notes. Even fade all of them in a bit. Then compare them. Can you still tell pickup differences? Yeah (but not even very clear anymore). Can you tell one Strat from another in case the used pickups are sort of comparable? Perhaps (but really just perhaps) in a direct ABX test, but once you mix different notes, no way anymore.
What I'm saying is that, say, 90% of the tonal differences happen in the attack phase. Is it strat-y quack or tele-ish twang? The attack will tell, the decay very likely won't.
Things get a bit blurred once overdrive and especially (real) feedback come into play. Quite obviously, a resonant guitar will feedback easier and differently than a solid body one. So there's defenitely that. There might as well be some overtones giving some things away, but still, the largest amount of tonal differences is coming from the attack phase (which, see above, can easily be tested). And I think the neck is the most relevant player here as well.

The compatibility of the neck and body will effect the sustain hugely and whether the note rings true in the first place but I agree left with only the decay identifying a particular type of guitar would be difficult.

But it depends how hard you pick!

 

[Cirrus]

Yeah I'm not saying it's more than an idle musing. I mostly replied so I could call Guitarbilly "goose".

 

[GuitarBilly]

Let's not go crazy here goose, I'm talking about the neck as, generally speaking, the single biggest contributor to midrange resonance in a solid body guitar, and I think that's easy to demonstrate. It doesn't take anything away from your anecdote - I think the body matters too. Plenty of times I've had pickups that work great in any mahogany body guitar and sound sterile in maple capped ones, for example.

But I think, and this is just a hunch, that the body wood matters more for transient response, and the neck matters more for the resonances that occur over the whole sustain/ decay of the string vibration.

Again it's important but it's not the whole equation. Im talking about how the guitar sounds as whole, which is what matters to me as player. Swap a strat vintage bridge for a Floyd and the guitar will sound very different. Swap pickups, and you also get a very different end result. An alder body strat sounds body different than an Ash body strat. And yes swapping necks change the tone too. Point being: There's no ONE part that determines the results.

If you have a great sounding/feeling neck surrounded by bad sounding parts you still have a bad sounding guitar. The sum of the parts is what makes the instrument.

 

[Fireproof]

The wood and length don’t matter nearly as much as how you use it.

 

[la szum]

The wood and length don’t matter nearly as much as how you use it.

And if has resonant vibrations then you are probably not involved.

 

[Cirrus]

Again it's important but it's not the whole equation. Im talking about how the guitar sounds as whole, which is what matters to me as player. Swap a strat vintage bridge for a Floyd and the guitar will sound very different. Swap pickups, and you also get a very different end result. An alder body strat sounds body different than an Ash body strat. And yes swapping necks change the tone too. Point being: There's no ONE part that determines the results.

If you have a great sounding/feeling neck surrounded by bad sounding parts you still have a bad sounding guitar. The sum of the parts is what makes the instrument.

I guess I just don't know why you're picking up on the idea that the neck is really important to resonance and arguing with me for saying it . I agree with every statement here, I'm not saying it is the whole equation. Pickups are obviously massively important, the bridge does matter, I've changed bridges for tone reasons. I've never said the neck is the only thing that matters - it feels like you've robbed me of all nuance and are arguing with a dogmatic version of me that doesn't exist.

Has anyone done the "hold the headstock" experiment I suggested in my first post?


Edit: Forgot to say I didn't mind being called Duck! No need to edit that out. I actually started a fake Distillery on Facebook called "Duck Palace", I love ducks!

 

[Eagle]

On a wider note;
People saying mahogany is warmer just aren't listening, same as rosewood is warmer. Yes it's different but neither of these things is particularly close. Mahogany (real mahogany) has long straight open pores that affect the resonance and rosewood has an oil content that effects the attack of the note. if you set up blind tests it really interesting because most people hear what they think they should be hearing if they can see the instrument.

 

[Eagle]

So many times do you hear people moaning that the neck pickup on a 24 fret guitar is in the 'wrong' place. Do those same people then say the they dislike SGs because the neck pickup is in the same place? Almost never.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Ho many time do you hear people moaning that the neck pickup on a 24 fret guitar is in the 'wrong' place. Do those same people then say the they dislike SGs because the neck pickup is in the same place? Almost never.

Hah, good find!

 

[la szum]

On a wider note;
People saying mahogany is warmer just aren't listening, same as rosewood is warmer. Yes it's different but neither of these things is particularly close. Mahogany (real mahogany) has long straight open pores that affect the resonance and rosewood has an oil content that effects the attack of the note. if you set up blind tests it really interesting because most people hear what they think they should be hearing if they can see the instrument.

Huh? Why are there not that many Mahogany Strat style guitars, or Alder Singlecut style guitars?
Any idea? Seems odd that if they are equivalent that manufacturers have tended to make a lot of the
same wood choices for half a century and more.

Or Maple board LP/335/339 style guitars for that matter? You just don't see them. Is for aesthetic reasons?

 

[Eagle]

Huh? Why are there not that many Mahogany Strat style guitars, or Alder Singlecut style guitars?
Any idea? Seems odd that if they are equivalent that manufacturers have tended to make a lot of the
same wood choices for half a century and more.

Or Maple board LP/335/339 style guitars for that matter? You just don't see them. Is for aesthetic reasons?

Gibson used traditional woods and just made them solid and they were only chosen originals for function and availability. Never tone. Alder was the cheapest wood available that was a suitable weight and didn't need a grain filler. No such thing as 'tone wood' ever.

 

[Will Chen]

This stuff has been done to death, I'll just drop this here:

1. Fender and Gibson chose wood's based on cost, availability, and cosmetics...period.
2. The whole purpose of a solid body guitar is to reduce resonance/feedback. A dense piece of wood rejects the transfer of vibration.
3. Generally, modern pickups are minimally microphonic.
4. Wood is organic and even the same species will vary greatly in density/structure from sample to sample.

 

[Eagle]

This stuff has been done to death, I'll just drop this here:

1. Fender and Gibson chose wood's based on cost, availability, and cosmetics...period.
2. The whole purpose of a solid body guitar is to reduce resonance/feedback. A dense piece of wood rejects the transfer of vibration.
3. Generally, modern pickups are minimally microphonic.
4. Wood is organic and even the same species will vary greatly in density/structure from sample to sample.

Wood matters and point three is irrelevant.
The guitar needs to work sympathetically with the string vibration or pickups have nothing to pick up. Specific species of wood only matters for it’s mechanical function.
How many times do all the best builders in the world need to say this. Everything Matters!

 

[la szum]

Gibson used traditional woods and just made them solid and they were only chosen originals for function and availability. Never tone. Alder was the cheapest wood available that was a suitable weight and didn't need a grain filler. No such thing as 'tone wood' ever.

You have the goods and credentials to trump me on this. Can't say I agree, though. No such absolutes in this
world last time I checked.

 

[la szum]

Wood matters and point three is irrelevant.
The guitar needs to work sympathetically with the string vibration or pickups have nothing to pick up. Specific species of wood only matters for it’s mechanical function.
How many times do all the best builders in the world need to say this. Everything Matters except 'tone wood.'

Fixed.

 

[la szum]