Okay... so if wood doesn't matter.... and scale length doesn't matter....

[metropolis_4]

I've never played a well constructed guitar with a dead spot, so I'll take your word for it.

Sustain, if your talking about the actual instrument not the feedback loop playing with a loud amp, is a function of the rejection of transfer of energy from the string. The less "resonant" (more stiff/dense) a body, the more sustain the instrument will have.

No idea what you are talking about in terms of "the way the strings vibrate", you need to be more specific here.



Explain exactly how the resonance matters. Any vibration of the wood is the impact of loss/transfer of energy from the strings, energy is not transfered back to the strings from the body unless excited by another force such as a loud amp which we know is the feedback loop.
However, reduction of that type of interaction is exactly what a solid body excels at. Anyone who's played a semi hollow or hollow body at volume and can literally feel the guitar quivering and bursts of air shooting out the sound hole knows what I'm talking about.

Look...I'm not going to argue against the idea that some guitars have a little magic about them. Some claim it's a special piece of wood, or that the pickup winding was done in a certain way, or a function of age, or finish, or maybe it was a fantastic f*****g day and the player was just in the perfect frame of mind. Maybe it's everything, maybe it's nothing.

It doesn't matter, people will believe what they want, including me. So if it makes you happy to believe mahogany is "warm" and maple is "bright", be happy.

I told this story at The Other Place:

I had a brand new EBMM Majesty that had a dead spot on all F#4 notes.

It wasn’t related to a specific string or fret or location on the fretboard. Every F#4 in every location was dead; zero sustain.

It didn’t matter if it was 2nd fret of the high E, 7th fret of the B, 11th fret of the G, 16th fret of the D, or 21st fret of the A. They all resonated the same way with no sustain.

If I tuned the B string down a step the 7th fret rang out and sustained and the 9th fret was dead. Tuned back to B the 7th fret was dead.

It seemed to be related specifically to the frequency of that note. The only conclusion I could draw was that something in the resonance of the guitar was causing it

 

[fretworn]

I would postulate that the reverse happens as well… just like sound wave propagation and reflections in a room, same resonant reflections in a guitar can equally reinforce certain frequencies (as well as dampen).

I have a short scale bass guitar on order (being made right now) that has an ultra-wide, well-constructed composite neck that runs through and through, to help reinforce some of those frequencies.



“Rings like a piano, with the wide neck like a piano soundboard.” ~ Tim Pearce

PipeDream Fretworks Chop6

 

[metropolis_4]

I would postulate that the reverse happens as well… just like sound wave propagation and reflections in a room, same resonant reflections in a guitar can equally reinforce certain frequencies.

I agree, in cellos and other bowed stringed instruments they’re known as “wolf tones”. I don’t see any reason the same phenomena wouldn’t happen at least to some degree in solid body guitars

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_tone

 

[fretworn]

I agree, in cellos and other bowed stringed instruments they’re known as “wolf tones”. I don’t see any reason the same phenomena wouldn’t happen at least to some degree in solid body guitars

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_tone

In the late 1970s Monty Novotny (of NBN fame) of Longmont, Colorado built a classical guitar for our family.

It arrived with a wolf note (A# esp on G string); had to go back. Apparently it’s a bear to fix.

 

[the-trooper]

3D printed plastic guitars FTW!

 

[Will Chen]

I told this story at The Other Place:

I had a brand new EBMM Majesty that had a dead spot on all F#4 notes.

It wasn’t related to a specific string or fret or location on the fretboard. Every F#4 in every location was dead; zero sustain.

It didn’t matter if it was 2nd fret of the high E, 7th fret of the B, 11th fret of the G, 16th fret of the D, or 21st fret of the A. They all resonated the same way with no sustain.

If I tuned the B string down a step the 7th fret rang out and sustained and the 9th fret was dead. Tuned back to B the 7th fret was dead.

It seemed to be related specifically to the frequency of that note. The only conclusion I could draw was that something in the resonance of the guitar was causing it

Fascinating. The one and only dead spot guitar I encountered was a fret issue. Bizarre that it would solely impact F#, it would seem frequencies for which F# appear in the overtone series would be impacted to some degree as well specifically B.

 

[la szum]

I don’t think that’s entirely true. From what I’ve read Fender’s was based on whatever could be sourced cheap from local furniture builders, but Gibson’s were based on the woods traditionally used in acoustic instruments.

When Gibson built its first solid body guitar they weren’t aiming for cheap, they were going for a sophisticated professional alternative to the “primitive” Fender guitars that were gaining popularity. That’s also why they chose to carve the top, because they had actual skilled luthiers who were capable of incorporating traditional guitar features into the design and they knew the competition wasn’t capable at the time of offering anything like that. They saw that as a selling point. It was the Cadillac of solid body guitars.

So cost and availability weren’t primary considerations for Gibson. They wanted to show they had the means of offering something a cut above what the competition could make. And neither were cosmetics because they painted gold paint over the wood so it didn’t even show.

My guess is that Gibson chose woods based on what would be familiar to their existing clientele to try to encourage adoption of this radical new type of instrument

Yup. If cheap and available was the criteria then every guitar manufactured in North America would have been
made from some kind of Pine and sound like a 3 bedroom 2 bath house.

 

[Cirrus]

Then instead of haunting mids you'd have middle class aspiration. The whole of rock and roll could have been totally different. Nice.

 

[Will Chen]

Yup. If cheap and available was the criteria then every guitar manufactured in North America would have been
made from some kind of Pine and sound like a 3 bedroom 2 bath house.

The first Fender prototypes and the Esquire were indeed pine. And we've come full circle as now that ash is getting very hard to come by due to the Ash Borer, they are going back to pine (see the current run American Professional II models offered with a roasted pine body).

EDIT: I imagine the reason pine was initially phased out is how hard it can be to finish and the relative softness of many varieties.

 

[fretworn]

Then instead of haunting mids you'd have middle class aspiration. The whole of rock and roll could have been totally different. Nice.

 

[la szum]

Yup. I was more making the point that if cheap and available were the only criteria then ALL US Made guitars
would have been a variety of Pine.

I think Wood matters in any and every application. Whether due to density, strength, durability, or just pure
aesthetics.

 

[the-trooper]

EDIT: I imagine the reason pine was initially phased out is how hard it can be to finish and the relative softness of many varieties.

No way! It's because Leo Fender conducted an extensive sonic research results of which showed that pine doesn't give enough low high mids in the left spectrum of toanz.

 

[Will Chen]

Yup. I was more making the point that if cheap and available were the only criteria then ALL US Made guitars
would have been a variety of Pine.

Pine isn't forgiving. I think in terms of cost they would weigh cost of resource vs cost of labor/prep and they ended up going with ash early on. which was just as readily available but much easier to finish. I mean...Dan Electro and Kay all experimented with even cheaper materials to make guitars. I likely misspoke on Gibson, as their having a longer history of building hollow and semihollow guitars likely went with what they knew using their established stock and suppliers.

 

[laxu]

I told this story at The Other Place:

I had a brand new EBMM Majesty that had a dead spot on all F#4 notes.

It wasn’t related to a specific string or fret or location on the fretboard. Every F#4 in every location was dead; zero sustain.

It didn’t matter if it was 2nd fret of the high E, 7th fret of the B, 11th fret of the G, 16th fret of the D, or 21st fret of the A. They all resonated the same way with no sustain.

If I tuned the B string down a step the 7th fret rang out and sustained and the 9th fret was dead. Tuned back to B the 7th fret was dead.

It seemed to be related specifically to the frequency of that note. The only conclusion I could draw was that something in the resonance of the guitar was causing it

I had a guitar with a dead spot at the 12th fret G. I tried one of those Fatfinger clamps to mitigate it and what that did was just move the dead spot to another fret and make the guitar neck heavy. Ended up selling the guitar.

My understanding is all guitars have dead spots, but often they end up at frequencies that are not directly any of the fretboard notes so it's a non-issue.

 

[Orvillain]

Newton's 2nd law: You're a gimp.

 

[Sleezy E]

All the guitars I have with the best toanwoulds make the low strings go, duh! duh duuhhh! dunna! dunna!! and the top strings go meddily meddilly! Meddilliyyy meeeoowww!!

 

[Eagle]

When you are building high end musical instruments consistency is important and the fact that customers mostly want a fender style guitar to weigh under 8lb so that is not much leeway when you consider that the unpainted body will need to be 3 1/2 lb .
This weight combined with availability, ease of finishing, appearance on transparent colours. This actually doesn’t leave you with much choice. You also need the finished body’s to sound predictable acoustically.
I have never said specific species of wood sound like X or Y because there is a spectrum and lots of overlap.
If you buy a strat you usually want it to sound in a particular way and the wood is part of the equation. A high end builder can simplify the process hugely by using the same number of pieces of nice looking straight grain wood around the same weight goal to prevent unexpected issues. Add a quarter sawn neck and you can be fairly confident in how it’s going to sound before it is built.
Budget builders on the other hand will use anything that is mechanically functional and hide the horror story in thick 2k finishes.
Sometimes they will sound good but it’s a lottery.

 

[eaeolian]

The first Fender prototypes and the Esquire were indeed pine. And we've come full circle as now that ash is getting very hard to come by due to the Ash Borer, they are going back to pine (see the current run American Professional II models offered with a roasted pine body).

EDIT: I imagine the reason pine was initially phased out is how hard it can be to finish and the relative softness of many varieties.

That and being worried about warranty returns with nitro over pine getting dented by...well, everything.

 

[Will Chen]

That and being worried about warranty returns with nitro over pine getting dented by...well, everything.

By the early 60's it wouldn't have been an issue as Fender was coating everything in poly, but for those first runs for sure just an accident waiting to happen. Modern finishing makes it a non-issue.

 

[metropolis_4]

Fascinating. The one and only dead spot guitar I encountered was a fret issue. Bizarre that it would solely impact F#, it would seem frequencies for which F# appear in the overtone series would be impacted to some degree as well specifically B.

That’s an interesting thought, I didn’t look into that. I would think you’re probably right.

I noticed it because I was playing a production of Mamma Mia when I got the guitar and that signature motif in that song lands on an F# and holds it for almost a measure.

First time I played it the note died out immediately… then it happened again… so I moved to a different position and same thing.

I took the guitar home and messed around with it the next day and found it seemed to be that specific frequency.

I didn’t have time to mess with it so I returned it for a different guitar.

Bummer too because otherwise I loved the guitar