NDSP Quad Cortex

[Lysander]

So if the common reality for most small club bands is that the rooms and sound engineers are subpar, wouldn't it be fair to say that a valve amp is the better choice for that environment??

It really really depends. Making amps sound good live is not easy either - specially in small venues.

 

[Orvillain]

It really really depends. Making an amp sound good live is not easy either - specially in small venues.

I've rarely struggled to be honest. Like... genuinely, I can't think of many gigs where my tone was bad.

The main time - I played an out-door festival on a big stage, audience of 1400 or so. Full stack behind me; two 4x12s... and I stupidly didn't have a long enough cable to plug into the bottom cab, so I plugged into the top. I was right in the beam of the speaker, and it was horrible to listen to, and it did affect my performance.

But the crowd didn't notice any of that of course. Because they were getting the FOH sound; because you don't typically hear the stage sound in that kind of environment.

Whereas you hear a lot from the stage in small clubs. In those kinds of environments, I turn up to the drums and make sure I'm not quiet, and not too loud. There's a sweet spot. I get my EQ dialled correctly, and I try to make sure the audience aren't getting blasted with the beam.

Audience habits helps quite a bit with that because in small venues, people rarely stand right up against the stage.

The other times were when I was using underpowered amps, or having to borrow some house amp piece of shit. I've always been resolved since those early days to not put myself in that situation. I'll jump on a bus with a 50-watt 5153 before I borrow another Fender FM 1x10 combo like I once had to in 2008/2009 !

 

[[Nathan]]

My observations at gigs with amps/modellers and having good sound. Amps just are the source of truth. You’re probably trying to tame an amp more than anything and you’re using the tone controls to make it balance the situation. You’ll get that stage bleed as well as FOH all gelling together for a sound.

Modellers can be run just as IEMs they can go "FRFR" they can go poweramp/cabs, plenty of setups. Then you’ve got the skill of the guitarist who typically sets things up followed by the sound guy on the night, so many variables.

It also feels like people are less willing to alter their digital sound in fear of messing their presets or whatever big brain setup they’re running, whereas with an amp and pedalboard changing the tonestack doesn’t really topple the setup over, it’s a quick change and done.

I’ve heard great sound and terrible sound on every combination of gear, both are capable of producing amazing sound but it just comes down to the person running things. If a band can’t pull a good sound live set with digital then imo they should upskill or engage a sound guy who can help them get things going.

 

[Mikael Dez]

BTBAM uses their AXE-FX(s) into Mesa power amps - I've seen them a half dozen times and they have consistently been the best sounding band I've ever seen. They play with in ear monitors to a click track and everything is tight, punchy and sounds like their albums' tones. If it's good enough for Paul Waggoner I sure as hell can't say it's not good enough for the rest of us - it's all preference and the guitarist's ability/relationship with the gear they've chosen.

 

[Orvillain]

BTBAM uses their AXE-FX(s) into Mesa power amps - I've seen them a half dozen times and they have consistently been the best sounding band I've ever seen. They play with in ear monitors to a click track and everything is tight, punchy and sounds like their albums' tones.

Yeah I bet into a Mesa poweramp it'd sound sick.

 

[AFKAEjay(retired)]

BTBAM uses their AXE-FX(s) into Mesa power amps - I've seen them a half dozen times and they have consistently been the best sounding band I've ever seen. They play with in ear monitors to a click track and everything is tight, punchy and sounds like their albums' tones. If it's good enough for Paul Waggoner I sure as hell can't say it's not good enough for the rest of us - it's all preference and the guitarist's ability/relationship with the gear they've chosen.

Digital versions of preamps into tubes/cabs…not even a matter of “good enough” imho..I experience those as 100% equal compared to a full analog chain.
Full models into tubes/cabs…pretty close also.

Its the choices made with how you want to monitor the digital part..not the digital component itself that makes the difference.

 

[DrewJD82]

Agreed. I don't understand how last night my synths were putting out proper beefy amounts of bass that was danceable, but the guitars weren't. I don't think it is a case of the PA not being up to the job, even if it is a small 170 cap venue.

I can see that happening if the presets were dialed in with shitty/small PA speakers. Like a couple 12" speakers on some stands in a basic rehearsal room where everyone is going direct, the first thing they're going to do is hack off all the low end because it'd be congested as fuck coming out of a shit PA. Or if they used their recording presets with all the low end hacked off below 100hz, assuming they'll work fine live.

I know the lack of low end in guitars is something I've definitely noticed locally at live shows. In rooms that max out at 200 people it's not that crazy for the actual amps to create a bunch of low end hitting the back wall of the stage where you can feel/hear it in the audience, then the next band comes out, going direct and it's gone.

I know this was my 'slippery slope' with recording with a modeler and dialing in the tones to fit the mix rather than dialing in the tones to sound like a real amp. By the time you're in the mix phase you end up getting further away from what actual amps really sound like.

 

[ian_dissonance]

I can see that happening if the presets were dialed in with shitty/small PA speakers. Like a couple 12" speakers on some stands in a basic rehearsal room where everyone is going direct, the first thing they're going to do is hack off all the low end because it'd be congested as fuck coming out of a shit PA. Or if they used their recording presets with all the low end hacked off below 100hz, assuming they'll work fine live.

I know the lack of low end in guitars is something I've definitely noticed locally at live shows. In rooms that max out at 200 people it's not that crazy for the actual amps to create a bunch of low end hitting the back wall of the stage where you can feel/hear it in the audience, then the next band comes out, going direct and it's gone.

I know this was my 'slippery slope' with recording with a modeler and dialing in the tones to fit the mix rather than dialing in the tones to sound like a real amp. By the time you're in the mix phase you end up getting further away from what actual amps really sound like.

It is really odd to me as someone who’s been using modeling direct for going on a decade that people don’t put their tones together out of a dedicated speaker in a band context. I’ve seen some awesome bands with the thinnest, scratchiest live tones because they’re just using their “album tones” on their AxeFX or whatever.

 

[namathan_zirwir]

Cool new video with Josh Middleton using the QC

 

[Orvillain]

First thing in the chain is a noise gate.

 

[Orvillain]

He's dialing his 5150 exactly how I do.

 

[JiveTurkey]

He's dialing his 5150 exactly how I do.

He looks like he's being held hostage in the thumbnail

 

[Mikael Dez]

Is that Marshall Mathers??

 

[ian_dissonance]

I always like his final product but his videos are so boring and he EQs the life out of everything in solo and then ends up boosting it back up on the guitar buss in all of his studio videos.

 

[Orvillain]

Is that Marshall Mathers??

 

[paisleywookiee]

Is that Marshall Mathers??

That's The Real Slim Shady, to you.

 

[Los-D]

View attachment 42274

 

[Mikael Dez]

First thing in the chain is a noise gate.

You don’t need to use a noise gate with FAS? Genuinely curious here, a noise gate would be at home and accepted in a physical pedalboard as well

 

[ian_dissonance]

You don’t need to use a noise gate with FAS? Genuinely curious here, a noise gate would be at home and accepted in a physical pedalboard as well

Can’t speak to Fractal but I can do “easy pinch harmonics” gain on Helix and the Boss GT1K at volume without needing a noise gate. Of course I still use one because hearing anything other than what I want is stupid.

 

[namathan_zirwir]

I never need to use a Noise Gate on the QC but I don’t dial in heavy tones very often either