NDSP Quad Cortex

[JiveTurkey]

I think this is a little bit reductive.

There are circumstances where having two completely independent signal paths is desirable. (For me, most of the time.) If you design the OS to present the pair of processors as one monolithic resource, sure it might be a little more intuitive for new users, but:

a) You increase latency. (And then TGP explodes...)
b) You complicate the process of building out presets for multiple instruments. (E.g. vocals via the phantom-powered XLR input on Helix Floor.)

The latter is especially problematic on HX and QC, where Send blocks are limited to 1/4" analog I/O for some reason. (I assume it's an insurmountable reason since neither Line 6 nor NDSP have managed to... surmount it.) The only way to get at XLR or USB audio is by way of reconfiguring each processors Input / Output blocks differently.

In any case, it's not as complicated as we're making it out to be. The only thing the user needs to understand is that the end of the top lanes needs to be routed into the beginning of the bottom lanes (if you’re just cramming one guitar signal through the entire Helix, as most guitarists will.) Even then most presets - and some templates - are already set up this way. And you often run out of screen space for amp/effect blocks before you run out of actual DSP power (unless you’re throwing a lot amps or poly effects in series) so the GUI is kind of self-explanatory in this regard.

The problem (on the Helix) is for something that for a piece of gear people bend over backwards 15 times over to tell you how easy it is to use; it's not intuitive. At all.

 

[Whizzinby]

I don’t get the difficulty or complication at all. On the QC you tap the lane Output and select Row 3 or 4. It’s literally a 2 second process.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Is the QC the same? The HX you have to drop a block on the chain then manually pull it down. IIRC. I went to supposed UI h#ll in FAS land but I just learned how to use it. Everything is generally so obtuse at first glance that nothing really stopped me in my tracks because everything had the potential to stop me in my tracks

 

[LCW]

The dual path management is one of the few things that is not pretty intuitive to do on the Helix. Without reading to manual you are unlikely to know you can do this or that you should do this. To be fair it's the same deal on the QC because they copied that functionality.

How was Neural just able to copy that interface/workflow functionality? I’m surprised Line6 didn’t have some IP on it and/or try to fight them for it.

 

[JiveTurkey]

How was Neural just able to copy that interface/workflow functionality? I’m surprised Line6 didn’t have some IP on it and/or try to fight them for it.

There's a poster that shows you

 

[JiveTurkey]

On topic; watched a rig rundown with Knocked Loose last night and they are running QCs for their live rigs. I did find it a bit funny when their newer guitarist was talking about the Kempers they used previously being too heavy

 

[LCW]

There's a poster that shows you

 

[Mongillo19]

On topic; watched a rig rundown with Knocked Loose last night and they are running QCs for their live rigs. I did find it a bit funny when their newer guitarist was talking about the Kempers they used previously being too heavy

Yeah I saw they were running QCs. Kempers being too heavy is laughable

I do love me some Knocked Loose lol

 

[JiveTurkey]

Yeah I saw they were running QCs. Kempers being too heavy is laughable

I do love me some Knocked Loose lol

I am a generation too old for them I love the heaviness but the vocals kill it. And I LOVE extreme vocals. Just dude's particular style I can't get with? I will say between that guitarist and Wes Hauch rundown from a while back; 7 string Ibanez Iceman GAS is a definitely a thing

 

[GTR37]

Yeah I saw they were running QCs. Kempers being too heavy is laughable

I do love me some Knocked Loose lol

Have they not figured out they could just get Kemper player and have 5 sounds ?

 

[JiveTurkey]

Have they not figured out they could just get Kemper player and have 5 sounds ?

TBF; I 1000% do not want a digital/modeling device without a screen to see what's going on. I don't care how much silk screened dedicated controls are on said device. I need some sort of menu system.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

I think this is a little bit reductive.

There are circumstances where having two completely independent signal paths is desirable. (For me, most of the time.) If you design the OS to present the pair of processors as one monolithic resource, sure it might be a little more intuitive for new users, but:

a) You increase latency. (And then TGP explodes...)
b) You complicate the process of building out presets for multiple instruments. (E.g. vocals via the phantom-powered XLR input on Helix Floor.)

The latter is especially problematic on HX and QC, where Send blocks are limited to 1/4" analog I/O for some reason. (I assume it's an insurmountable reason since neither Line 6 nor NDSP have managed to... surmount it.) The only way to get at XLR or USB audio is by way of reconfiguring each processors Input / Output blocks differently.

In any case, it's not as complicated as we're making it out to be. The only thing the user needs to understand is that the end of the top lanes needs to be routed into the beginning of the bottom lanes (if you’re just cramming one guitar signal through the entire Helix, as most guitarists will.) Even then most presets - and some templates - are already set up this way. And you often run out of screen space for amp/effect blocks before you run out of actual DSP power (unless you’re throwing a lot amps or poly effects in series) so the GUI is kind of self-explanatory in this regard.

Mostly in complete agreement and yes, I was, as usual, overly reductive and aggressively, hyperbolically negative. But I also feel like "its super simple and intuitive" easily forgets the first 15 minutes of experience in this workflow.

Overall, I think it's better that the user learns: "well, there is a processor dedicated to each path, so think about it that way" probably? But it also seems like this doesn't HAVE to be something that the user needs to be aware of...or if they are supposed to be aware of it, it should be made a LITTLE more obvious in terms of "linking them alone isn't what expands the processing power -- each lane is hard-connected to its own processor that Shall Not Be Shared.

 

[GTR37]

How was Neural just able to copy that interface/workflow functionality? I’m surprised Line6 didn’t have some IP on it and/or try to fight them for it.

I think it’s really tough to get a legal action for that
Hell people have been taking JCM800 for years and changing one or 2 components and tweaking a value on pot
But it’s 97% the Jcm800 build

Now , if Line6 were partnered with Gibson , Doug may have received a letter

 

[JiveTurkey]

I don’t get the difficulty or complication at all. On the QC you tap the lane Output and select Row 3 or 4. It’s literally a 2 second process.

This makes MUCH more sense.

 

[Jarick]

The dual path management is one of the few things that is not pretty intuitive to do on the Helix. Without reading to manual you are unlikely to know you can do this or that you should do this. To be fair it's the same deal on the QC because they copied that functionality.

Only other buried thing is snapshots adjusting parameters. There's really no way other than the manual to discover that "hold this knob and turn" makes a snapshot control. I am all for shortcuts like these, because they make it easy for users familiar with the gear. But there should be a second way to do it by just using a menu.

I had no idea about the dual path thing first time I used Helix. I think I learned about it from an early video. That's not necessarily a Helix flaw though IMO. QC basically copied the same routing concept so that was easy to figure out.

One annoying thing with QC is that you can't route from row 1 to row 2 so you can't just have a simple serial chain with more room. There's times QC has enough DSP to run a big signal chain but you need more blocks on the screen.

 

[GTR37]

TBF; I 1000% do not want a digital/modeling device without a screen to see what's going on. I don't care how much silk screened dedicated controls are on said device. I need some sort of menu system.

I think it depends on use
If you use like 5 profile on your Kemper it pretty easy to remember
A: Fender B matchless
C 2204 D5150
E delay
Now if you use 20 profiles without a screen or have a piss poor memory
Then well your pretty much screwed

But I see your point someone in a corporate band that has a 200 song set list would suck
Fluff would probably be ok

 

[Mongillo19]

I am a generation too old for them I love the heaviness but the vocals kill it. And I LOVE extreme vocals. Just dude's particular style I can't get with? I will say between that guitarist and Wes Hauch rundown from a while back; 7 string Ibanez Iceman GAS is a definitely a thing

The vocals were definitely something that grew on me but 100 percent can see why it turns people off. I just can't enough of the j u i c y breakdowns and callouts

 

[mbenigni]

The problem (on the Helix) is for something that for a piece of gear people bend over backwards 15 times over to tell you how easy it is to use; it's not intuitive. At all.

My opinion may be worthless here on account of my being such a nerd. I honestly found it pretty obvious from the get go.

On the other hand, spending 20 minutes setting up channels and snapshots on Fractal will make me foam at the mouth. Different strokes. Or possibly aneurisms.

 

[mbenigni]

Is the QC the same? The HX you have to drop a block on the chain then manually pull it down. IIRC.

I PM'd you on this point yesterday and I'm still not following. Why do you have to place a block on the wrong lane and then "pull it down" to the right one? Why not just put it where you need it in the first place?

IIRC. I went to supposed UI h#ll in FAS land but I just learned how to use it. Everything is generally so obtuse at first glance that nothing really stopped me in my tracks because everything had the potential to stop me in my tracks

So FAS' latest defense is that it's every bit as unpleasant to use as it looks like it's supposed to be?

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

On the other hand, spending 20 minutes setting up channels and snapshots on Fractal will make me foam at the mouth. Different strokes. Or possibly aneurisms.

Yeah, I do find figuring out how to do this level of preset configuration in Fractal to be like relearning a foreign language that has two extra letters in its alphabet every damn time. Which is why I just run simple presets and switch amongst them. The Audience Hasn't Noticed My Gaps Yet