Theory Question (Chord Progression)

[mavrick102000]

I came up with a chord progression some time ago, and I'm trying to go back to some basic theory (never entirely learned) to figure out where to further develop the idea into a song.

The chords: C7#9, A aug (diatonic no 3rd, F/A), G aug (diatonic no 3rd, Eb/G), Gm7 - with a funk/fusion groove type feel.

Is it correct labeling this progression as key of Cm with the chords above being 1, VI, V, V7?

Do walking bass line notes leading into chord stabs indicate anything for the key/progression or just treated as approaching notes leading into a chord stab?

I'm probably overthinking it (and definitely need more coffee)

 

[metropolis_4]

How are you voicing those chords?

 

[Sascha Franck]

C7#9, A aug (diatonic no 3rd, F/A), G aug (diatonic no 3rd, Eb/G), Gm7 - with a funk/fusion groove type feel.

I don't get the A and G augmented chord descriptions. What do you mean with "diatonic no 3rd" (I know what diatonic usually means)?
An augmented chord almost always requires a 3rd and it'd be a major third (an augmented chord usually being two stacked major 3rds). Along the same lines, the "F/A" is confusing. An F major triad on top of an A root would add a 3rd to the A chord - but a minor one. Really confusing, sorry.

Perhaps it'd be a good idea if you just recorded a small snipplet.

 

[mavrick102000]

They're diatonic in that they are only 2 notes passing in a slide, not a 3 note triad.

The F/A or Eb/G notation was something I saw referenced, but didn't completely understand ( but included) in case it was meaningful to someone else trying to assist with me understanding what I was looking at.

I can play C min pent or blues over this modified short progression, mixolydian works as well, but can be a little more dissonant.

 

[Sascha Franck]

Well, I still don't know which notes are actually played in which chord. And fwiw, that's not what diatonic means.

 

[metropolis_4]

If you can show us how you’re voicing these chords it would really help understand what might be going on. Can you share what notes you’re playing or what frets?

 

[Sascha Franck]

If you can show us how you’re voicing these chords it would really help understand what might be going on. Can you share what notes you’re playing or what frets?

Yeah, that might be the only way to really find out what's actually going on.

 

[mavrick102000]

F and A for what is noted as Aaug, and Eb and G for what is listed as Gaug.

4th string 7th fret for A
2nd string 6th fret for F

4th string 5th fret for G
2nd string 4th fret for Eb

Sorry I've been slammed at work. I meant to provide this information earlier.

 

[metropolis_4]

It’s a little hard to tell without seeing it in context, but my best guess is that the #9 is actually a minor 3rd, the F and A are passing tones, and the G and Eb are the 5th and 3rd of Cm.

Which would make the progression:

Cm7 - Gm7

Or the F and A could be part of an F major chord making the progression:

Cm7 - F - Cm7 - Gm7


But something you can try to see if it is the chords you listed would be to play these voicings:

C7#9  Aaug  Gaug  Gm7
x     x     x     x
5     6     4     3
5     6     4     3
5     7     5     5
x     x     x     x
x     x     x     x

If those are the chords then those voicings should sounds right in the context of your song

 

[Sascha Franck]

But something you can try to see if it is the chords you listed would be to play these voicings:

First voicing is a plain C major triad.
And to my ears, the entire progression sounds quite awkward that way.

 

[metropolis_4]

First voicing is a plain C major triad.
And to my ears, the entire progression sounds quite awkward that way.

I know, I was reducing each one to its base triad removing extensions. To make it easier to hear if the base chord was correct.

If the chord is C7#9 then playing the notes GCE should sound correct

 

[Sascha Franck]

If the chord is C7#9 then playing the notes GCE should sound correct

To my ears, in this context, C7#9 comes across more minor-ish.

 

[metropolis_4]

To my ears, in this context, C7#9 comes across more minor-ish.

I agree. That’s why I said I think the #9 is actually a minor 3rd making the chord a Cm7.

But if it is a C7#9 as it says in the OP then the notes CEG would be in that chord

 

[Sascha Franck]

But if it is a C7#9 as it says in the OP then the notes CEG would be in that chord

Typically, C7#9 indicates an altered chord, so G would be a problematic note. The E on top as well - unless you've played the #9 an octave above (11th fret high E).

 

[metropolis_4]

Typically, C7#9 indicates an altered chord, so G would be a problematic note. The E on top as well - unless you've played the #9 an octave above (11th fret high E).

I’m not sure what you’re getting at.

Functionally a 7#9 is a major chord and contains the major triad. The altered tone is the 9th not the 3rd

C7#9 = C - E - G - Bb - D#

 

[Sascha Franck]

C7#9 = C - E - G - Bb - D#

Well, if you go by the chord-scale theory approach, there's just one single scale containing this very chord, namely HT/WT, quite an uncommon scale type (featuring 8 notes and what not). If you however look at the altered scale (which is a lot more working like a "normal" 7 note scale), you'll find a C7#9 straight away - just with no G.

 

[metropolis_4]

Well, if you go by the chord-scale theory approach, there's just one single scale containing this very chord, namely HT/WT, quite an uncommon scale type (featuring 8 notes and what not). If you however look at the altered scale (which is a lot more working like a "normal" 7 note scale), you'll find a C7#9 straight away - just with no G.

I’m really not understanding what point you’re trying to make…

You’re saying the chord C7#9 does not contain a 5th?

Your approach to identifying scales for improvisation over a chord don’t change the structure of the chord

 

[Sascha Franck]

You’re saying the chord C7#9 does not contain a 5th?

Correct, typically it doesn't.

Your approach to identifying scales for improvisation over a chord don’t change the structure of the chord

It's not about improvising. It's about a "tonal room" (typically a key, but less so with altered chords) to hold the chord in question. And for a C7#9 the only common "tonal rooms" are HT/WT and altered.
Of course, you can still use whatever kind of bluesy licks and what not - but as this thread is about analyzing things, I prefered to go for an analytical approach.

 

[metropolis_4]

Correct, typically it doesn't.

Of course it does. It’s a major triad with a dominant 7th and a sharp 9th added.

The way you choose to voice a chord in a performance doesn’t define its actual structure. If you choose to not play the 5th when you play the chord it doesn’t mean the chord doesn’t have a 5th.

 

[duzie]

I found this interesting.
Not helpful in the discussion though