Mirror Profiles IRs. No one can post the 'Told Y'all' gif on this one

Best IR for 2000s Metalcore? Mesa OS with SM57/421 combo? Heard the 1992 sound clip of that and it already sounded amazing.
2000’s metalcore is the sound of my teenage years and kind of what’s engrained in my tone memory ha.

2002 is possibly my favourite, it’s well balanced (not too smooth, not too bright).

2001 Trad NAILS that KSE/Adam D tone. It blew my mind when I heard how close that gets to his As Daylight Dies tone which is one of my all time favourites



The 2003 cab is a few serial numbers away from one of Colin Richardsons cabs that’s supposedly one of his favourites. That one is probably the most aggressive one I sell. Colin loves some 421 in his blend, Andy Sneap was typically more about a single 57 a lot of the time.

2005 is big and aggressive, even though that’s the cheapest pack I use it a ton.

The 1992 has the slightly different older V30 tonality which works great too, just a slightly different top end character. 1999 is somewhere similar to the 2002, just a very classic Mesa cab sound (kind of like how I think of the sound of a Mesa cab in my head).

You can absolutely get killer results for metalcore with the Greenback cabs (3VH and Brit Green), Brit Vintage, and the Orange cabs if you want something similar but a bit less common as Mesa cabs.
 
Ha this was something that was absolutely essential for me when making the IR’s. I didn’t want any compromises when using load boxes to micing up a cab. It sort of kicked my ass into learning about all the interactions that take place, but I think the results were worth it.

It was only really once I got my technique down with making IR’s that I realised just how good modelling is these days. Once they sounded indistinguishable with real amps, they’re ideal for modellers.

Kind of blew my mind that I was able to match my real amp+cab+mic tones using a modeller+IR
Any tips and tricks to share?

I tried using Logic Pro's Impulse Response Utility to make some IRs of my Bluetone 4x10 but only one of them turned out to my liking. I blame it on mic positioning (plus not having anything better than an AT2020) but interested in learning if there's more to it that I should consider.
 
Any tips and tricks to share?

I tried using Logic Pro's Impulse Response Utility to make some IRs of my Bluetone 4x10 but only one of them turned out to my liking. I blame it on mic positioning (plus not having anything better than an AT2020) but interested in learning if there's more to it that I should consider.
I think two good things to have in mind are to work out how they are intended to be used and then having a reference to compare your results with. Because of the interactions and behaviours involved, there’s always going to be SOME kind of compromise. So identifying how they are going to be used can maybe help narrow down what the best approach will be for capturing them.

From there, I’d recommend micing the cab up normally and just getting tones you like. Our ears get used to sounds very quickly, and when volume is involved we get tired and start to doubt decisions we’ve made.

I make pretty big packs (every speaker at a full range of positions with several mics). For your kind of situation, I’d recommend this:

- put your preferred mic dead centre on each speaker and reamp a DI through your rig just to identify which speakers you like best and what the tonal profile of each one is
- once you have a favourite speaker, try micing some different positions. Listen back a few hours or a day later so your ears have time to reset.
- eventually you’ll have an idea of what to expect and how to adjust things to capture what you’re hearing in the room.
- once you know that the mic’d tone is exactly what you’re looking for, I’d start looking at making IR’s.

The best approach for IR’s will depend a bit on what gear you have available. The most important thing IMO is having the reamped DI tracks through the cab mic’d normally to reference against and to make sure you’re getting a 1:1 result. This will typically mean tapping a DI signal from the amp while the cab is connected, but there may be other use cases to consider (maybe you want an amp+reactive load tone to match the mic’d tone, which will make the tone in that situation more accurate, but less accurate for other chains).

EDIT: Also one other thing thats handy to think about - Its kind of like a maths equation where your source and IR are going to contain some of the same elements and some different stuff. The trick is to cancel out the stuff you don't want and to be left with the stuff you do want. So you think about whatever your source tone is and what the result is and then try to give yourself the cleanest IR possible.

I usually use a 3s sine sweep which may be slightly overkill, but using a sine sweep over a noise blip will give better signal to noise results. Also make sure you aren't distorting anywhere in the chain as IR's can't reproduce these behaviours and itll lead to weird results.
 
Last edited:
I think two good things to have in mind are to work out how they are intended to be used and then having a reference to compare your results with. Because of the interactions and behaviours involved, there’s always going to be SOME kind of compromise. So identifying how they are going to be used can maybe help narrow down what the best approach will be for capturing them.

From there, I’d recommend micing the cab up normally and just getting tones you like. Our ears get used to sounds very quickly, and when volume is involved we get tired and start to doubt decisions we’ve made.

I make pretty big packs (every speaker at a full range of positions with several mics). For your kind of situation, I’d recommend this:

- put your preferred mic dead centre on each speaker and reamp a DI through your rig just to identify which speakers you like best and what the tonal profile of each one is
- once you have a favourite speaker, try micing some different positions. Listen back a few hours or a day later so your ears have time to reset.
- eventually you’ll have an idea of what to expect and how to adjust things to capture what you’re hearing in the room.
- once you know that the mic’d tone is exactly what you’re looking for, I’d start looking at making IR’s.

The best approach for IR’s will depend a bit on what gear you have available. The most important thing IMO is having the reamped DI tracks through the cab mic’d normally to reference against and to make sure you’re getting a 1:1 result. This will typically mean tapping a DI signal from the amp while the cab is connected, but there may be other use cases to consider (maybe you want an amp+reactive load tone to match the mic’d tone, which will make the tone in that situation more accurate, but less accurate for other chains).
Thanks! It's a bit hard to determine the mic position on the cab because even shining a flashlight from my phone into the grille it's difficult to make out where exactly the cone is. Thickass grillcloth!

After a few tries I definitely got better results just micing it and comparing the same riffs to what I recorded the last time. Those sounded much darker than what I got now even though then my ears said "this is good".
 
Thanks! It's a bit hard to determine the mic position on the cab because even shining a flashlight from my phone into the grille it's difficult to make out where exactly the cone is. Thickass grillcloth!

After a few tries I definitely got better results just micing it and comparing the same riffs to what I recorded the last time. Those sounded much darker than what I got now even though then my ears said "this is good".
Turning the lights off (and setting some mood music and a glass of wine) can make it easier to see the centre of the speaker. Or maybe you can remove the grille cloth temporarily, some are velcro'd on or are easily removable.

Or you can try and get as close as you can and then adjust the position based on where it sounds brightest. Either way, I think its very much a case of listening back to how it sounds and then adjusting until the mic is picking up what you like. The main thing really is identifying which speaker you like the sound of best, as they'll all have their own character.

You can also trying moving the cab closer or further away from walls/corners, or decoupling it from the floor. I've heard of some engineers moving cabs 1/3 of the way into the room and pointing them diagonally to the 1/3 point of the opposing wall. Maybe overkill for most, but I think its best to approach IR making with doing it once so you never have to go back and redo things.
 
Turning the lights off (and setting some mood music and a glass of wine) can make it easier to see the centre of the speaker. Or maybe you can remove the grille cloth temporarily, some are velcro'd on or are easily removable.
The grillcloth on both my cabs is very much stuck in there for good. For the wine, is a Syrah more toneful than a Cabernet Sauvignon? How can I tell which one my cab prefers? ;)

Or you can try and get as close as you can and then adjust the position based on where it sounds brightest. Either way, I think its very much a case of listening back to how it sounds and then adjusting until the mic is picking up what you like. The main thing really is identifying which speaker you like the sound of best, as they'll all have their own character.
Yeah this is pretty much what I did.

You can also trying moving the cab closer or further away from walls/corners, or decoupling it from the floor. I've heard of some engineers moving cabs 1/3 of the way into the room and pointing them diagonally to the 1/3 point of the opposing wall. Maybe overkill for most, but I think its best to approach IR making with doing it once so you never have to go back and redo things.
Mine are a good bit away from the walls or corners. Definitely helps!
 
What would you recommend for IR pack for early VH tones , ill buy that pack
On the weekend for sure
Ha OK, so don't judge too hard. This is my 1 minute VH Style tone. Just fired up HX Native and then tried the Brit Green and 3VH IR's. For both packs, the TR speakers seemed to be somewhat similar to the Van Halen vibe. Gotta factor in I don't play guitar like Eddie (despite sharing names) and I just threw up the 2203 rather than diving into Plexi's and boosts and things.

Added some plate with Soundtoys Super Plate, the guitar tone itself is totally raw though. Just sm57 on each clip.

Brit Green:



3VH:



3VH is a little smoother on top, Brit Green has a bit more bite. Just personal preference really. I'm sure with some adjusting of amp settings and using the right boost these would get even closer.
 
If you arent having any luck, Salmiakki Koskenkorva will get you where you need to go quickly
IMG_1211.JPG

After Koskenkorva, the evening progressed as expected...
 
IMG_1211.JPG

After Koskenkorva, the evening progressed as expected...
Haha classic Finnish behaviour of turning from quiet and introverted to drunk and loud.

I should add that I am 50% Finnish. Been a while since my last can of Reindeer piss/Koff/Karhu/Lapin Kulta, although I did order a crate of grapefruit Lonkero the other week (pretty hard to find over here so there's still a novelty factor thats probably worn off on Finns). Kyro Nappue gin is top stuff too.
 
Haha classic Finnish behaviour of turning from quiet and introverted to drunk and loud.

I should add that I am 50% Finnish. Been a while since my last can of Reindeer piss/Koff/Karhu/Lapin Kulta, although I did order a crate of grapefruit Lonkero the other week (pretty hard to find over here so there's still a novelty factor thats probably worn off on Finns). Kyro Nappue gin is top stuff too.
Honestly Lonkero should be one of our biggest exports, along with some of our chocolates, but Finns just don't know how to sell stuff abroad. I'm sure you don't miss the cheap lagers though!
 
Honestly Lonkero should be one of our biggest exports, along with some of our chocolates, but Finns just don't know how to sell stuff abroad. I'm sure you don't miss the cheap lagers though!
I’ve seen Lonkero sold in a bar in Manchester a few years ago which was quite a surprise, it’s the only time I’ve seen it here. I’ve seen Napue a few times in London. Lonkero would sell itself here if people knew it what it was/that it existed.

Fazer chocolate absolutely needs to be more common here, we always stock up on that. There’s a local eastern European shop that sells some Geisha and Tupla bars, and also Presidenti coffee (bad but reminds me of Finland). English chocolate has basically turned into brown sugary plastic over the last 2 decades or so whereas Fazer seems to have stayed the same the entire time. I love the collaborations Fazer do too, whenever Cadburys do that it’s basically a way to take more cocoa out and cram more sugar in.

Finland’s food gets criticised way more than it deserves, i think it’s quite funny that some of the things it does best are things people go nuts about France over. Finnish cakes/pastries and cheeses are incredible. And obviously rye bread is the ultimate bread.
 
Ha OK, so don't judge too hard. This is my 1 minute VH Style tone. Just fired up HX Native and then tried the Brit Green and 3VH IR's. For both packs, the TR speakers seemed to be somewhat similar to the Van Halen vibe. Gotta factor in I don't play guitar like Eddie (despite sharing names) and I just threw up the 2203 rather than diving into Plexi's and boosts and things.

Added some plate with Soundtoys Super Plate, the guitar tone itself is totally raw though. Just sm57 on each clip.

Brit Green:



3VH:



3VH is a little smoother on top, Brit Green has a bit more bite. Just personal preference really. I'm sure with some adjusting of amp settings and using the right boost these would get even closer.

OHh I like the HV Brit Green TR56 Thats a different pack Isnt it ?
Be this One?

1701877708991.png

or this one

1701877852419.png


Def going to be the first track you played
 
OHh I like the HV Brit Green TR56 Thats a different pack Isnt it ?
Be this One?

View attachment 15216
or this one

View attachment 15217

Def going to be the first track you played

That’s the pack in the first clip, I felt that one got closest but i also spent a little more time on it too. It’s a bit of a balancing act of getting the squishy top end from a cranked poweramp and then adjusting mic position. All things considered, I thought it got pretty close!
 
From an external party, give me a second (soundcloud is full - ah) and I will cycle a clip through the BRIT GREEN for you. I think you will be very happy with it.
There is a lot of variety within the mic positions. The clip will have me cycling though the 57 stuff.

1701882293710.png
 
This is through my Fractal FM9 BRIT800 with some delay and plate reverb played with an EBMM Axis .For the top entry, a pitch block was at front to lower the tuning. I couldn't add pitch detune since I already used up the block. I usually do a 15-20% mix for Panama. I was rushing it and my playing isn't perfect but I think it's got you covered. The gaps are me flipping IR files from 30 to 70. The middle IRs have more bite but it's hard to tell since your ears won't have time to adjust. The second clip has the pitch block with the 20% mix. The 3rd one - I lowered it a semitone in Studio One and added a low shelf to get closer to the youtube source. For file 4, since I have a problem sitting still, and out of curiosity, I ran Cabinetron (sweet plugin) to tone match to see how far I was off. I think I did alright.

Ed, if you want me to remove the post, I certainly will.







 
Last edited:
Here's the 3vh. I didn't do a tone match for this one. I just ballparked it. I think you're good with any of them. The IRs are excellent.





Whether I'm right or wrong, I was doing a rough estimation of this sound. It's a youtube extraction so take it for what it's worth. Since the bass doesn't come in yet, I would add some 100hz fill until the bass comes in. Youtube does a lot of compression. They crush it plus it's an extract that's been compressed many times in the mix.

 
Last edited:
Back
Top