Minor keys - do they really exist?

spawnofthesith said:
This is what I suspect is probably the root of it
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giphy.gif
 
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spawnofthesith said:
Actually what I said is not totally true my bass player often likes to describe a songs key based on what he perceives as the modality of the chord progression, but we don’t always see eye to eye on what he’s identifying as such :LOL:
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As my bassist (who has a great ear and is very knowledgeable on theory) likes to remind us: the bassist decides what chord you're playing ;)

So from the context of the modality yours might be the authority there :)
 
Achilles said:
We're confusing modes and scales. The original modes were created/named/identified in relation to the C major scale.
The millions of musicians since that time have mashed up terminologies for convenience sake.

wrong: B aeolian applies to D major

right: B minor is relative to D major

BUT, again, what I labeled wrong would be perfectly understandable and considered correct to most musos.




P.S. I could easily be 100% off base since I'm posting via memory cells I haven't used since 8th grade music theory class back in 1974...... :LOL:
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No. You're confusing things ;)

Modes are relative to THE major scale, not a specific major scale.

Both B minor and B Aeolian are "relative" to D major, just as A Mixolydian is relative to D major.

All of the modes of D major are relative to it.

You are maybe thinking in the context of the "relative minor" which would be the B minor (which happens to share all the same notes as B Aeolian).
 
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Achilles said:
I'm going back to the people who came up with the names - and they were all based on steps of a C major scale.

www.learnjazzstandards.com

What Are Modes In Music? 7 Music Modes Explained

Trying to figure out what are modes in music? We'll explain the music theory behind the seven modes so you can take your solos to the next level.
www.learnjazzstandards.com www.learnjazzstandards.com
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Sorry, but that's not what the link says.

It's merely using C major as the example.
 
Nerd mode on: As chromatic variations and resolutions became more integrated in baroque music, e.g. raising the 7th degree in aeolean or mixolydian to get a major dominant chord (the triad on 5th degree used in V-I cadences) instead of the minor dominants given by their modes, the strict boundaries between modes began to blur to the benefit of the tonic, subdominant, dominant paradigm that came to rule so called “tonal” music till this day. Any mode could be achieved by flattening or sharpening selected steps in a mode, so sticking to two basic modes with flats and sharps instead of seven closed systems was beneficial to analysis, modulations, transpositions as well as notation. No one seems to be able to explain why it became ionian and aeolian, could as well have been dorian and mixolydian or phrygian and lydian. Ionian is practical in tonal music, though, because it has a major dominant by default (e.g. G in C major), but aeolian has not, instead it was used much more as harmonic minor (sharp 7th degree) or melodic minor (sharp 6th and 7th degree) during the transition from modal to tonal music. Especially Bach is famous for challenging the modal paradigm and bring modes into the world of chromatic alterations on the fly, his fugues in particular. Nerd mode off.

Kindly
Gothi
 
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Wanna put my tender Lydian in a blender watch it spin round to a beautiful mixolydiaaaaan





Sorry really reaching with my puns today :sofa
 
Gothi said:
Nerd mode on: As chromatic variations and resolutions became more integrated in baroque music, e.g. raising the 7th degree in aeolean or mixolydian to get a major dominant chord (the triad on 5th degree used in V-I cadences) instead of the minor dominants given by their modes, the strict boundaries between modes began to blur to the benefit of the tonic, subdominant, dominant paradigm that came to rule so called “tonal” music till this day. Any mode could be achieved by flattening or sharpening selected steps in a mode, so sticking to two basic modes with flats and sharps instead of seven closed systems was beneficial to analysis, modulations, transpositions as well as notation. No one seems to be able to explain why it became ionian and aeolian, could as well have been dorian and mixolydian or phrygian and lydian. Ionian is practical in tonal music, though, because it has a major dominant by default (e.g. G in C major), but aeolian has not, instead it was used much more as harmonic minor (sharp 7th degree) or melodic minor (sharp 6th and 7th degree) during the transition from modal to tonal music. Especially Bach is famous for challenging the modal paradigm and bring modes into the world of chromatic alterations on the fly, his fugues in particular. Nerd mode off.

Kindly
Gothi
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Very informative!

I guess it ended up being Ionian and Aeolian because they are the two modes with the fundamentally distinct sounds of ‘happy’ and ‘sad’.
The other modes don’t have as strong a voicing, as they seem to be mixing flavours.
 
spawnofthesith said:
Right, but I’ve never heard someone say “this song is in the key of of F# locrian”

I’m trying to deduce why the aeolian mode gets special status as getting to be described as a “key” when none when none of the other modes do (aside from Ionian obviously)
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Aeolian is no key…it’s part of the 3 scales used in minor.
 
Ed DeGenaro said:
Aeolian is no key…it’s part of the 3 scales used in minor.
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So is it incorrect to refer something as a "minor key" ? Typically when someone is talking about a minor key they are referring to the natural minor which is the same notes as the aeolian mode. Melodic and harmonic minors in written music don't have key signatures they're written as accidentals. Of course if a song is being described as in a minor key its still just the same key signature as the relative major

Which alll of this just kind of boils back to the whimsical pondering of the thread title
 
Ed DeGenaro said:
Aeolian is no key…it’s part of the 3 scales used in minor.
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Ed, what's the deal with the Melodic Minor scale? I was taught in school you raised the 6th & 7th of the minor scale a half step, but only when ascending, and put them back to natural when descending.

But I've never seen anyone on the internet say that. It's simply stated as raising both notes, and never any mention of which way the music is going, i.e., whether it's ascending or descending.

Clarification?
 
TSJMajesty said:
Ed, what's the deal with the Melodic Minor scale? I was taught in school you raised the 6th & 7th of the minor scale a half step, but only when ascending, and put them back to natural when descending.

But I've never seen anyone on the internet say that. It's simply stated as raising both notes, and never any mention of which way the music is going, i.e., whether it's ascending or descending.

Clarification?
Click to expand...

yeah the ascent/descent thing is what I was always taught as well and why its called the melodic scale
 
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