Luminite Graviton M1 MIDI Controller

Did you enable "Toggling On" for Preset 2 by any chance ?
Yes, cause I want the same principle under preset 2 also.

Preset1:
CC 50 val 127
CC 24 val 0
toggle CC 24 Val 127
(toggling on)

Preset2:
CC 51 val 127
CC 24 Val 0
toggle CC 24 Val 127
(toggling on)

the issue occurs with these actions in the preset.
Am I doing something wrong?
I guess, for the function functionality I expected…the toggle status needs to be reseted at leaving a preset. Seems to me the toggle status is global. So when the toggle status in preset 1 is “not toggeld”, when I go to preset 2 it goes to its toggled messages.


(On a 2nd click of all my presets I want to send a specific CC)


Should not work that way neither. The messages were sent every time with my units (checked with MIDI Monitor). How many messages are there in your Preset 1 ?
A possibility is the messages were send out too fast for the Kemper. You can update to 4.1.0 and add some Pause between them and see if it works ?

1 message…CC 50…but I’ll test again With new firmware.
 
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Thanks for the report !

This is not a bug, but rather a priority for the multiple XY paired to single Graviton setup (common use case). Multiple XY to multiple Graviton pairing is quite complicated due to wireless encryption.

But a single XY to multiple Graviton setup could be possible ! I'll look into it soon
To be clear…I’m not aiming to control multiple Gravitons at once…I want to control whatever Graviton I powered on, without having to pair the controller every time.
 
you set TRS > Mode to Expression first, then right next to it, tap on Settings, you'll see the Calibrate option there. I'll update the Manual to make it clearer.
Found it..I was not aware the setting page has 2 pages you toggle at the right top of the screen on the 1/2
 

Graviton M1 / M2 4.1.0 Software Update

New Features:​

  • New Screen Menu: Grouped into Home / Devices / Settings. Faster navigation between some screens.
  • New Hardware Support: EC Controller (dual rotary encoders knobs).
  • Encoder Message: Adjust and send the PC / CC / CV value directly from within any Preset, with any adjustment step and min / max range.
  • Pause Message: Add time delay between MIDI Messages, changeable from 1 to 382 milliseconds.

Bug Fixes:​

  • Backup Screen: Fixed import / export crash with long bak file name.
  • Relay Message: Changed the pulse duration from 5ms to 30ms
  • MIDI Editor List View: Added long tap to Move / Delete / Send etc messages.
  • MIDI Tracking Screen: Renamed from Control Surfaces (easier to understand)

User Manual:​

Luminite Graviton M1 / M2 User Manual 4.1.0

How to Update:​

  • Go to Settings > Update > Follow the on-screen instructions.
  • The update process typically takes 2-3 minutes. If it hangs up or takes longer than that, tap cancel or power cycle the device and try again.
Am I correct that selection of “fixed preset” means that that whatever you make them do…will apply to every preset?..so a global setting for the EC?
Am I correct, that eventhough it’s a global setting….the values of that global setting are entered in 1 specific preset?
If correct…that gives a bit of a brain error ;)

What Id expect (Boss style)
Define in setting menu wether the encoders settings are global, or per preset.
If global…you define them in a global menu
If per preset, define them in a preset.

feature request for the EC:
scroll PC with push of the rotary
add long press option…with definable actions underneath
The +PC does not seem to work when placed behind an encoder.


feature request for the live menu:
On change of a value with an encoder, or expression value….show the value in the live screen
 
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I can select relay on the M1 and select TRS1….does that actually do relay switching of external devices?
 
I believe it should. I recommend checking the built in manual, it has a lot of stuff.
Not according to manual and specs if I’m correct.
The ability to define relay as an action suggests otherwise. Surprise for me…I bought the M2 also cause I thought it was unique to that device…else I would have gone for 2 M1s…but..hard to complain about a unit doing more then described ;)

Indeed it does a lot of stuff…clear UI/manual/well tested leaves a bit to be desired tbh (my impression)…but, I’m not complaining.
The basics are bug free…some of the more specific stuff has unexpected behaviour…to me at least..
CC+ for example…1 preset handeling that..when you max it out in preset x…and then switch to another preset…cause its maxed…it no longer does anything.…while the setting in the controlled unit is not maxed out. (I’d like the ability to define some Xy as “stomps”…doing their thing in all presets of a bank, that would solve that)
But if it only had the more basic stuff, which work well…for the price it would still be a good unit with unique functionally . So I hope it matures.
 
So…I filled this thread with some stuff which was unexpected/don’t get…but when I let go of how I expected it to work,,,and use what it CAN do controlling a kemper:

The X switch selecting 5 slots in a Kemperperformance.
The Y switch
- toggling solo boost on/off
- toggling a gain boost on/off
- toggling a low cut (neck pup drive sound)
- increasing morph
- decreasing morph

(the morph thing is a bit sketchy cause it doesnt get the actual state after preset change…but it will do fine)

The M1 connects to KPA through usb..and gets power from that.
In live mode it gives me visual feedback on what is happening.
Kemper head, the M1 and it’s wireless Xy….I can do a gig with this…no sweat…I will not put the Kemper remote on the floor for many gigs..I might even sell it ;)
The thing is not the most obvious UI wise…but once you get it it’s super superfast editing.


Thats 180,- very, very well spend….
 
How do control CV with dedicated expression pedal on the M2?

When I put a exp CV in a preset…all my expression pedals influence it. It does work when I set one in a preset. But I want trs 3 to control it only.

When I add the same exp CV in an expression preset from the expression page, I can see the connect expression pedal controls the item…bit it does not effect the connected unit. All the settings are the same as in the exp CV that worked from the preset.


Secondery question, is it possible to define exp controls per preset where you define which trs controls it?
 
Feature request: when you add an action in a preset that can be controlled by an expression /EC, let the user define in the preset what controls the action. (Exp1, EC channel)
add…If preset contains controlling a CC exp or ec..the global assignment of the exp pedal is overruled.
 
I guess, for the function functionality I expected…the toggle status needs to be reseted at leaving a preset. Seems to me the toggle status is global. So when the toggle status in preset 1 is “not toggeld”, when I go to preset 2 it goes to its toggled messages.

I think I understand now:

With the current software, each Preset’s Toggle State (On / Off) will not reset when you switch to another Preset. This is useful for switching individual effects on / off, like with a pedalboard, where each state is remembered. Also useful for triggering MIDI Notes / Chords with Boss GM800 / synths etc

For your use case with the Kemper, you want a Preset's Toggle State (On / Off) always reset back to On (but not sending out any MIDI) whenever you switch away from it. And when you come back to that Preset again, the 1st click is always for sending the On state, 2nd click is for sending the Off state and so on, until you switch away from it again. Am I right ?

This is easy to implement with an additional option inside the Toggle Menu.

To be clear…I’m not aiming to control multiple Gravitons at once…I want to control whatever Graviton I powered on, without having to pair the controller every time.

Yes that also possible, I'll add it into the list.

Am I correct that selection of “fixed preset” means that that whatever you make them do…will apply to every preset?..so a global setting for the EC?
Am I correct, that eventhough it’s a global setting….the values of that global setting are entered in 1 specific preset?

Yes correct,
  • Fixed Preset: you can assign an XY Switch / Footswitch / Rotary Encoder to 1 of 120 Presets available. And these buttons will only trigger MIDI messages in that specific Preset (fixed function), no matter what the current Bank is.

  • Bank Preset: Run the Preset in the designated position (1st to 10th) in the current Bank. This Preset will change accordingly when scrolling through Banks.
Each system operates differently, so the terminologies are a bit different. Like switching between Mac / Windows / iOS / Android

feature request for the EC:
scroll PC with push of the rotary

You can set it up like this:
1. Add a Scrolling PC + Message into a Preset, rename that Preset: "PC Scroll Up".
2. Add a Scrolling PC - Message into a Preset, rename that Preset: "PC Scroll Down".
3. In EC Controllers Screen > Long Tap on a Push Button > Assign Action > Fixed Preset > Select the "PC Scroll Up / Down" Preset created above.

The +PC does not seem to work when placed behind an encoder.

Yes correct, an Encoder message is for changing a "normal" PC / CC / CV message value after it.

Scrolling PC / CC message can change their value by themselves, without the need of an Encoder message at the front, and keep their current value internally even when switching to another preset.

Each type has a different use case.

Feature request for the live menu:
On change of a value with an encoder, or expression value….show the value in the live screen

Added to the list !

I can select relay on the M1 and select TRS1….does that actually do relay switching of external devices?

Only the M2 has built-in Relay Port,
For the M1, you need the RV adapter plugged into that TRS 1 Jack.

CC+ for example…1 preset handeling that..when you max it out in preset x…and then switch to another preset…cause its maxed…it no longer does anything.…while the setting in the controlled unit is not maxed out.

Scrolling CC / PC messages keep track of their current value internally, even when switching between different Presets.

If you want to reset / change their internal counters, you can use Scrolling CC / PC Jump messages.

Or maybe in this case, you want them to send their maxed value repeatedly when triggered ?

(I’d like the ability to define some Xy as “stomps”…doing their thing in all presets of a bank, that would solve that)

Is that the same as triggering an XY Switch assigned to a Fixed Preset ? Except I'm assuming you want it to happen in the background without updating the screen, or the current preset ? That could be an option as well.

How do control CV with dedicated expression pedal on the M2?

When I add the same exp CV in an expression preset from the expression page, I can see the connect expression pedal controls the item…bit it does not effect the connected unit. All the settings are the same as in the exp CV that worked from the preset.

Yes assigning a specific TRS Jack to a dedicated Expression Preset is the correct setup for this. The output voltage doesn't change because of a bug fixed 4.1.2. Can you update and try again ?

Secondery question, is it possible to define exp controls per preset where you define which trs controls it?

Yes you can add an "Expression Preset" (Page 3) message to a normal Preset, where you can define which TRS can control which Expression Preset.

Feature request: when you add an action in a preset that can be controlled by an expression /EC, let the user define in the preset what controls the action. (Exp1, EC channel)
add…If preset contains controlling a CC exp or ec..the global assignment of the exp pedal is overruled.

Can you give a more specific example ?
 
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This is easy to implement with an additional option inside the Toggle Menu.
@Luminite theres one issue I marked bold in this post..id consider that a prio 1 for users.

I would love this…boss implemented it is “current number functionality“…which means you assign actions to a second click on the same knob.
I could imagine an option “reset toggle at preset change” doing the same thing…but harder to understand for peeps.


Yes that also possible, I'll add it into the list.

Your the best ;)
Fixed Preset: you can assign an XY Switch / Footswitch / Rotary Encoder to 1 of 120 Presets available. And these buttons will only trigger MIDI messages in that specific Preset (fixed function), no matter what the current Bank is.
This is not what I meant with my question, but there is an issue with storing these settings also…so using this quote: I have assigned fixed presets to XY positions number of times (works)…but when I power of the unit…it is back to default settings. Tried it a couple of times…once they were still there on reboot…if you test, do it a couple of times.
Tbh…I took apart my main board building a new one with the M2…gig tommorow…no clue how I’m gonna handle this. Can you confirm this is a bug on the M2?
Or maybe in this case, you want them to send their maxed value repeatedly when triggered ?
That would work..it’s counterintuitive as is now…if it does nothing when maxed out.
Is that the same as triggering an XY Switch assigned to a Fixed Preset ? Except I'm assuming you want it to happen in the background without updating the screen, or the current preset ? That could be an option as well.
I think it is, simular results in a more understandable/flexible architecture. The idea is that you create “stomps” within a bank, you can assign switches/Xy to those, and define that they send updates at preset change. Maybe its a good place to put expressions also…idnk.
Benifit would be the live screen shows the actual preset, but you can stomp things on and off within a preset.
User can define 4 switches as Presets, 2 as stomps for example. Check microdesignum, they did something simular.
Yes assigning a specific TRS Jack to a dedicated Expression Preset is the correct setup for this. The output voltage doesn't change because of a bug fixed 4.1.2. Can you update and try again ?
I will…your fast ;)

Yes you can add an "Expression Preset" (Page 3) message to a normal Preset, where you can define which TRS can control which Expression Preset.


Can you give a more specific example ?

I read this as if it’s already possible…gonna check.
 
Bug:
I have an EC rotary (encoder channel1) controlling CV output in a preset. It works as long as I am in the editscreen of the preset.
As soon as leave that screen, no matter to which one…it no longer works at all, de rotary does no longer effect the CV.
It doesn’t matter wether I assigned the EC to current or fixed preset.

The same issue with an EC on channel 2 controlling a CC parameter.

Yes you can add an "Expression Preset" (Page 3) message to a normal Preset, where you can define which TRS can control which Expression Preset.

It only allows selection of trs 1 and 2, on the M2 I would expect the others also.
 
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@Luminite theres one issue I marked bold in this post..id consider that a prio 1 for users.

I would love this…boss implemented it is “current number functionality“…which means you assign actions to a second click on the same knob.
I could imagine an option “reset toggle at preset change” doing the same thing…but harder to understand for peeps.

Yes actually this secondary Action / Function per switch is in the plan (for either for long tap or a second tap) !

This is not what I meant with my question, but there is an issue with storing these settings also…so using this quote: I have assigned fixed presets to XY positions number of times (works)…but when I power of the unit…it is back to default settings. Tried it a couple of times…once they were still there on reboot…if you test, do it a couple of times.
Tbh…I took apart my main board building a new one with the M2…gig tommorow…no clue how I’m gonna handle this. Can you confirm this is a bug on the M2?

This is not a bug, but rather how the timer will wait for 2 seconds of touchscreen inactivity before saving any changes (to keep the touchscreen responsive). If you unplug it before that, all the changes wont be saved.

Try to wait for 2 seconds before unplugging and the changes will be saved.

That would work..it’s counterintuitive as is now…if it does nothing when maxed out.

I checked again, even after being maxed out (127), they still do keep sending 127 if triggered.

I think it is, simular results in a more understandable/flexible architecture. The idea is that you create “stomps” within a bank, you can assign switches/Xy to those, and define that they send updates at preset change. Maybe its a good place to put expressions also…idnk.
Benifit would be the live screen shows the actual preset, but you can stomp things on and off within a preset.
User can define 4 switches as Presets, 2 as stomps for example. Check microdesignum, they did something simular.

Cool i'll check those out

Bug:
I have an EC rotary (encoder channel1) controlling CV output in a preset. It works as long as I am in the editscreen of the preset.
As soon as leave that screen, no matter to which one…it no longer works at all, de rotary does no longer effect the CV.
It doesn’t matter wether I assigned the EC to current or fixed preset.

The same issue with an EC on channel 2 controlling a CC parameter.

Fixed in 4.1.3 !

It only allows selection of trs 1 and 2, on the M2 I would expect the others also.

Fixed in 4.1.3 !
 
Yes actually this secondary Action / Function per switch is in the plan (for either for long tap or a second tap) !
Great!
Fixed in 4.1.3 !
Do you have time to sleep? ;)

Unexpectedly TRS 1 and 2 do relay switching…which is great…but since it’s not in the manual (if I’m correct), before I build my setup around it…will this be supported in future FW also?
 
This is not a bug, but rather how the timer will wait for 2 seconds of touchscreen inactivity before saving any changes (to keep the touchscreen responsive). If you unplug it before that, all the changes wont be saved.

Try to wait for 2 seconds before unplugging and the changes will be saved.
I tried…it really does not save.waited 10 seconds. I send you a vid.
 
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I tried…it really does not save.waited 10 seconds. I send you a vid.

Good catch ! Yes it's a M2 only bug (doesn't affect M1). Fixed in 4.1.4

Unexpectedly TRS 1 and 2 do relay switching…which is great…but since it’s not in the manual (if I’m correct), before I build my setup around it…will this be supported in future FW also?

Yes it can work like that without the adapter in some cases, but not recommended because of:

1. Ground loop.
2. Exposing the microcontroller directly to the potential ESD, or high voltage (5V+), which can damage the port (some older tube amp has high DC voltage on their channel switching jack)

The relay switches are there to isolate and protect the system from these elements.
 
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Yes it can work like that without the adapter in some cases, but not recommended because of:

1. Ground loop.
2. Exposing the microcontroller directly to the potential ESD, or high voltage (5V+), which can damage the port (some older tube amp has high DC voltage on their channel switching jack)

The relay switches are there to isolate and protect the system from these elements.
Tbh…if the UI offers the option like it does…users will use it (understandably)…and you might be looking at warranty claims if the controller breaks. Which adapter do you speak of? Dont see it in your productline

Good catch ! Yes it's a M2 only bug (doesn't affect M1). Fixed in 4.1.4
 
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