Luminite Graviton M1 MIDI Controller

@Luminite I ran some PC and CC's from my PC to the Stomp with the same cable via MIDI OX, and it worked flawlessly. I'm thinking there may be a bug with your USB MIDI implementation.
Eagerly watching this! I came here to beg for instruction on using USB midi because I’m not able to get it working. Hoping it is a bug and not me being stupid! Lol
im trying to get the M1 to send USB midi to Kemper Player as it only uses USB midi…
 
@Luminite I ran some PC and CC's from my PC to the Stomp with the same cable via MIDI OX, and it worked flawlessly. I'm thinking there may be a bug with your USB MIDI implementation.

Thanks for the report. I think the reason is HX Stomp is a composite USB device which contains multiple devices at once, in this case USB Audio Class first and USB MIDI Class second. Pure MIDI Class devices like the IR-X will get detected straightaway. I'll look at this composite USB device detection function and see if there is a workaround.

I was unaware that 4.03 was out. THat seems to have fixed that issue. Thanks!

The IR-X is set to channel 1. I switched to a 5-pin cable and that seems to work correctly. Now the question is, is there a bug with the USB Host or with the IR-X? When I try to use the USB for MIDI with the Stomp, it doesn't work at all, and with the IR-X it switches some things but not as it's supposed to.

USB Host works fine with my Zoom devices (PC for patch changes). Does your IR-X get random responses with single PC commands ? If yes there is a possibility of USB ground loop. Can you try powering them with isolated power sources / power bank and see if the problem persists ?

I guess there is no way to rearrange or remove a MIDI preset command that is not the last one? I wanted to remove one command from the middle in my preset but could not do that without removing everything after it first. Hold command for menu with move/delete options would be nice here.

Yes if you long tap on a MIDI Block there are options of Remove / Move Left / Move Right for that block

Eagerly watching this! I came here to beg for instruction on using USB midi because I’m not able to get it working. Hoping it is a bug and not me being stupid! Lol
im trying to get the M1 to send USB midi to Kemper Player as it only uses USB midi…

Does the Kemper Player work as an USB Audio Interface ? If yes then it can be composite USB device as well. I'll try to find a workaround
 
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Yes if you long tap on a MIDI Block there are options of Remove / Move Left / Move Right for that block
I forgot to add "if the MIDI editor is set to List view." There is no way to hold any of it. I prefer the List view because it's a bit faster to view and edit multiple CCs that way.
 
USB Host works fine with my Zoom devices (PC for patch changes). Does your IR-X get random responses with single PC commands ? If yes there is a possibility of USB ground loop. Can you try powering them with isolated power sources / power bank and see if the problem persists ?
Everything is powered by a Cioks DC7, which I believe is isolated. The IR-X would respond as expected when I tested a single block from within that block, but would either not change anything or only partially change things when I would switch presets with multiple MIDI commands sent to different channels/devices.
 
Does the Kemper Player work as an USB Audio Interface ? If yes then it can be composite USB device as well. I'll try to find a workaround
yes USB interface, works with iPad as well as MacBook
it has a USB B type for audio and a USB A type for back up to USB stick.
The manual has this:

“Use the USB type A port to connect USB flash drives for PROFILER backups and operating system updates. Please
consult the chapter Updates, Backups and Sharing Sounds for details.

For KEMPER Rig Manager™, USB audio and USB MIDI connect the USB type B port of the PROFILER Player to
either a USB type A port or a USB type C port on the PC.

✓ The USB type A port can also be used to connect an universal MIDI foot controller or any other MIDI device with
standard MIDI sockets via a USB MIDI adapter. Be aware, that there might be limitations since these adapters often
don’t support SysEx messages.”
 
On a different note, is the included USB cable supposed to by a mini-USB? Because that's what I got. A very nice USB-A to mini-USB cable.
 
Thanks for the report. I think the reason is HX Stomp is a composite USB device which contains multiple devices at once, in this case USB Audio Class first and USB MIDI Class second. Pure MIDI Class devices like the IR-X will get detected straightaway. I'll look at this composite USB device detection function and see if there is a workaround.



USB Host works fine with my Zoom devices (PC for patch changes). Does your IR-X get random responses with single PC commands ? If yes there is a possibility of USB ground loop. Can you try powering them with isolated power sources / power bank and see if the problem persists ?



Yes if you long tap on a MIDI Block there are options of Remove / Move Left / Move Right for that block



Does the Kemper Player work as an USB Audio Interface ? If yes then it can be composite USB device as well. I'll try to find a workaround
I have it working now.

Apparently the USB A port on the Kemper Player is where I need to be plugged in. Using USB C port in M1.
Then 'Device to Computer' selected in M1 USB Midi settings selected.
 
I forgot to add "if the MIDI editor is set to List view." There is no way to hold any of it. I prefer the List view because it's a bit faster to view and edit multiple CCs that way.

Ah I see. I'll add the long tap action to the List View for opening the Move / Delete etc context menu

Everything is powered by a Cioks DC7, which I believe is isolated. The IR-X would respond as expected when I tested a single block from within that block, but would either not change anything or only partially change things when I would switch presets with multiple MIDI commands sent to different channels/devices.

If a single PC Block works as intended, perhaps the speed at which multiple MIDI messages are sent out is too fast for the IR-X. A possible solution is to use a Pause block that can be inserted between MIDI Blocks, adding a very brief delay between them. I'll try adding Pause block to the next update.

On a different note, is the included USB cable supposed to by a mini-USB? Because that's what I got. A very nice USB-A to mini-USB cable.

It was supposed to be a USB Type-C cable! There was a supplier mix-up, and the wrong type was sent. Sorry for that, but any Type-C cable will work.

I have it working now.

Apparently the USB A port on the Kemper Player is where I need to be plugged in. Using USB C port in M1.
Then 'Device to Computer' selected in M1 USB Midi settings selected.

Nice ! The way it intended.
 
Getting a strange behavior setting up the XY to send PC via USB.
im creating midi presets to have one function, to send PC on the receiving device’s midi channel. For the most part I think I have it but the strange behavior is sometimes you have to hit the physical toggle switch twice as the first time you move it it merely selects the target preset on the M1, the second time it sends the command. And sometimes preset 1 (PC0) is activated as soon as you move the switch to preset 3. Hitting 3 a second time then sends the proper PC command.

in the manual I see mention of ‘Last Preset’? (Sorry, going from memory right now I think that’s the name) it sounds like that describes what is happening. So I tried to find where I might have to turn that off but no luck.
The directions to find that in Settings takes me to page where it has no mention of that feature.

basically I’d like to have the four positions of the X toggle switch to send 4 PC commands instantly. Right now it’s working sort of…

I need a tutorial video for midi novices !
 
- I see it’s in full development, seems by one guy with short lines to customers….that’s great..but comes with a risk: Is this stuff reliable enough? Has anyone roadtested it? Does the wireles survive environments with IEM and mics filling the radiospace?

The controller's communication is on a custom 2.4GHz frequency, which is stronger and has a longer range than Bluetooth-based devices (able to penetrate walls). It works with 2.4GHz guitar transmitter placed 2-inches away. There are 12 channels to choose from if you experience interference. There are a couple of people gigging with the M1 / M2 in FB group Luminite Effects Users Group

- Is it monkey proof enough to get it up and running quickly? I know how to work with PC/CC, can handle something like Boss‘s assigns connecting multiple units…but I don’t wanna do configstuff.

For basic PC / CC usage, setting a preset usually takes less than 10 seconds,

- Am I correct that i remote with a switch + rotary will be offered, is there a timeline?

Yes EC controllers (2 x rotary encoders with push button), first batch is already built, will be released once its software finalized

- will it be possible to combine 2 remotes and pair them both?

Yes you can pair up to 10 remotes, all can work at once.

- Can I program the remote switch (xy) to increase a CC by (let’s say 10) on every click…and a decrease on another? (Usecase = controling volume)

Yes you can do that with Scrolling CC, with 1 to 255 step adjustment

- does it do “on hold“ functionality, both the footswitches as well as de Xy switches?

Yes Momentary Mode works on both XY Controllers and Footswitch Pedals

- id like the to set up the Xy switch in a way that one joystick controls presets, and the other to send CC to control parameters of a preset. Does the architecture allow that?

Right now each XY switch can be assigned to a Preset, but adjusting a preset parameters is possible with updates

- what method is adviced to stick the Xy to a guitar…will I want to stick it to a 1950s Gibson ? ;)

It comes with sticky pads on the bottom (nano suction type, no adhesive). Works great with poly and modern nitro finish. With very thin / worn finish like oil or vintage nitro, you can stick them on the pickguard, or attach them on the strap.

im creating midi presets to have one function, to send PC on the receiving device’s midi channel. For the most part I think I have it but the strange behavior is sometimes you have to hit the physical toggle switch twice as the first time you move it it merely selects the target preset on the M1, the second time it sends the command. And sometimes preset 1 (PC0) is activated as soon as you move the switch to preset 3. Hitting 3 a second time then sends the proper PC command.

Sounds like you may have left Toggle On / Momentary On enabled ?
 
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I wonder where this limit of 8(or is it 16?) MIDI messages per preset come from? Memory layout is probably fixed and preset structure preallocated so it must be with limit, but why not, say 128? Memory is cheap. if you want to control 1(one) GCX you already spend 8 messages 🤷‍♂️
 
I got a shoppin cart filled with this stuff…but a few checks before I hit buy ;)

- I see it’s in full development, seems by one guy with short lines to customers….that’s great..but comes with a risk: Is this stuff reliable enough? Has anyone roadtested it? Does the wireles survive environments with IEM and mics filling the radiospace?
- Is it monkey proof enough to get it up and running quickly? I know how to work with PC/CC, can handle something like Boss‘s assigns connecting multiple units…but I don’t wanna do configstuff.
- Am I correct that i remote with a switch + rotary will be offered, is there a timeline?
- will it be possible to combine 2 remotes and pair them both?
- Can I program the remote switch (xy) to increase a CC by (let’s say 10) on every click…and a decrease on another? (Usecase = controling volume)
- does it do “on hold“ functionality, both the footswitches as well as de Xy switches?
- id like the to set up the Xy switch in a way that one joystick controls presets, and the other to send CC to control parameters of a preset. Does the architecture allow that?
- what method is adviced to stick the Xy to a guitar…will I want to stick it to a 1950s Gibson ? ;)

Fyi: I took the w6 out of my cart cause it doesn’t allow connecting expr pedals.
I have been using it with a wireless guitar, wireless mic and a 2.4 GHz wireless network all in close proximity and it has been rock solid.

The sticky feet on the XY controller come off very easily with no residue. However I understand your reluctance to subject a vintage instrument to that.
 
If glueing it to the guitar seems off putting, maybe you can just tie it to a strap for example.

I've just been using mine on a desk as I don't feel like committing to putting the XY on a single guitar.
 
Does it differentiate between “normal press” and “long press” of buttons?
example: on normal press: send pc1, on longpress: only send CC2
Long Press > not yet, it'll come at some point !

Additional question: does it allow seperate messages on 2nd click of a button? (Boss calls that “curnum”, Kemper has morphing under 2nd click (for referenc))
Alternative PC / CC messages with a 2nd click > yes with Toggling CC / PC messages.

Can an XY action trigger user defined actions (PC/CC) without changing presets on the M1?
Not with the XY Controllers, but the EC Controllers can with the upcoming in 4.1 update.

I wonder where this limit of 8(or is it 16?) MIDI messages per preset come from? Memory layout is probably fixed and preset structure preallocated so it must be with limit, but why not, say 128? Memory is cheap. if you want to control 1(one) GCX you already spend 8 messages 🤷‍♂️
Not just Presets: Graphical User Interface, Songs, Setlists, WiFi, Bluetooth, USB / Host, peripherals: 10 x XY Controllers, 10 x Footswitches, Import / Export, etc all uses memory, plus future reservation. I think 16 messages per preset is enough most of the time. You can send multiple Presets at once with the Preset Chaining function if needed (up to 1920 messages at once)
 
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Is it possible to control an M1 from an external BLE Midi controller such as an Airstep?

If they can pair with each other then its possible, using the "MIDI In" function to trigger Presets with incoming BLE MIDI Messages.

In my mind toggle means alternating between min / max values…but maybe thats cause I got used to that woth other devices.

what I’d like to do:

Select a preset…and have it do what it does on selection...let’s call that send “midistuff 1”
Then..Select the same preset again…and then…for example….send a CC to boost volume with a CC message that was not in “midistuff 1” at all.

Would that be possible with toggle?

Yes Toggling CC / PC is for sending two different sets of messages within the same Preset
 
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So a F6W footswitch that had been lost in the mail in November somehow arrived after all and I have had a bit of time to put it through its paces.

Works just as well wirelessly as the XY controller and it's easy to press the switches on both row. The F6W is only a bit larger than the M1 itself so it's super portable. Seems to stay put where you place it too.

One minus is that the 1/4" jack would be perfect for an expression pedal but seems you can only use the jack to use the controller in a wired setup. Don't know if the hardware allows for it, but expression -> F6W/F10W --wireless--> M1 would be pretty dope.

A bigger minus for me is that the switches are so narrow that I can't put those Mooer switch toppers on it. I wonder if there's any toppers that fit?

Also I definitely want separate tap/hold functionality. I'd probably use hold functions for cycling banks and so on.
 
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One minus is that the 1/4" jack would be perfect for an expression pedal but seems you can only use the jack to use the controller in a wired setup. Don't know if the hardware allows for it, but expression -> F6W/F10W --wireless--> M1 would be pretty dope.

A compact wireless adapter for expression pedal will come at some point ! Stick them on the side and you can have true wireless expression

A bigger minus for me is that the switches are so narrow that I can't put those Mooer switch toppers on it. I wonder if there's any toppers that fit?

Yeah the plastic ones dont fit, but these aluminum with set-screws may !
SOLUTEK Pedal Footswitch Topper with 3 Screws and Rubber Insert Fit Tightly on common pedal switches(3/8"10mm) Red Silver Black Gold Blue Green 6 Pack

Also I definitely want separate tap/hold functionality. I'd probably use hold functions for cycling banks and so on.

Added to the list !

Seems like you can pair multiple controllers to 1 “M”…but not multiple Ms to 1 controller.

Hope you can confirm this as a bug which goes to your backlog.

Thanks for the report !

This is not a bug, but rather a priority for the multiple XY paired to single Graviton setup (common use case). Multiple XY to multiple Graviton pairing is quite complicated due to wireless encryption.

But a single XY to multiple Graviton setup could be possible ! I'll look into it soon.

Regarding expression pedals:

The manual says there should be “TrS“ in the settings menu to calibrate…the option is not there…im on 4.0.3

If you set TRS > Mode to Expression first, then right next to it, tap on Settings, you'll see the Calibrate option there. I'll update the Manual to make it clearer.

In the expression preset list…when I select the little button in the button, according to the manual I should be able to switch to another trs.
The options are greyed out, and it’s fixed on trs 2.

It's not a bug. The grayed out buttons (TRS 1 and TRS 2) are just the description / label (can't be tapped on) for the actual buttons below it (the Expression assigned to the TRS Jack above). You can tap on these to switch between the Expression 1 and 2

For this menu, there are some UI differences between M1 and M2 (due to the different number of TRS Jacks) but they works the same.

Scenario2
Select preset 1 —> PC gets send (works)
Select preset 2 —> PC of preset nr 2 gets send (Issue)…Instead the toggle CC of preset 1 gets send…and I have to select preset nr 2 again to get the PC defined in that preset.

In other words..if there is a toggle CC in a preset, if it’s not triggered yet…no matter what button on the controller you select…the toggle CC gets triggered first, and whatever you tried to select only happens when you select it again

Is this as designed or a bug?

No it should not work that way. Tested on mine (4.0.3) and the behavior was as you expected. (checked with MIDI Monitor)

Did you enable "Toggling On" for Preset 2 by any chance ?

If a Preset has Toggling On or Momentary On enabled, but no Toggling CC/PC in it, then when its Toggle Off state is activated, a copy of all CC/PC messages in the Preset, with their values/numbers changed to 0, will be sent instead

Observation (preset not in toggle mode)
On selection of preset 1, whatever is in there gets send
On 2nd selection, whatever is in there gets send.
On 3rd selection nothing gets send.

Is that observation correct?

For Kemper users it’s inconvenient cause they use this to toggle between morphed / not morphed state.

Should not work that way neither. The messages were sent every time with my units (checked with MIDI Monitor). How many messages are there in your Preset 1 ?
A possibility is the messages were send out too fast for the Kemper. You can update to 4.1.0 and add some Pause between them and see if it works ?
 
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Graviton M1 / M2 4.1.0 Software Update

New Features:​

  • New Screen Menu: Grouped into Home / Devices / Settings. Faster navigation between some screens.
  • New Hardware Support: EC Controller (dual rotary encoders knobs).
  • Encoder Message: Adjust and send the PC / CC / CV value directly from within any Preset, with any adjustment step and min / max range.
  • Pause Message: Add time delay between MIDI Messages, changeable from 1 to 382 milliseconds.

Bug Fixes:​

  • Backup Screen: Fixed import / export crash with long bak file name.
  • Relay Message: Changed the pulse duration from 5ms to 30ms
  • MIDI Editor List View: Added long tap to Move / Delete / Send etc messages.
  • MIDI Tracking Screen: Renamed from Control Surfaces (easier to understand)

User Manual:​

Luminite Graviton M1 / M2 User Manual 4.1.0

How to Update:​

  • Go to Settings > Update > Follow the on-screen instructions.
  • The update process typically takes 2-3 minutes. If it hangs up or takes longer than that, tap cancel or power cycle the device and try again.
 
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