Line 6 Helix Stadium

[Orvillain]

Yeah, I had all the Redmatica stuff back in the day. (Been neck-deep in Logic since 3.2 back in...'97? Long before Apple snagged Emagic.) Loved it; really clever team of engineers.

When we did the content for Equator2 there was lots of really painful Keymap Pro we had to do. Fuck knows why, coz everything we used it for could have been easily scripted. But by god that software suckkkkkkeeeeeddddddd hard beans.

A big reason why we've doubled down on modeling vs. capture isn't just because modeling is our wheelhouse.

Back in the keyboard workstation wars of the late 90s, multisampling became alllll the rage. If your synth didn't also let you sample other synths and meticulously map them to specific ranges of the keyboard, you were left out to dry. "What?! I can sample any synth ever made?!" was a common mantra, even though that technology had existed since the 80s. An Italian company called Redmatica even made software that would automate the process—it'd spit out a MIDI note to your synth, capture the resultant audio, trim the empty space, and repeat for the next velocity or note or range of notes until you had a fully sampled version of that synth's patch, ready for inclusion in Logic's EXS24 sampler. Apple acquired them in 2012 and integrated some of their IP.

Then in the mid-00s, hardware sampling took a back seat to analog modeling synths, followed by the resurgence of true analog synths. People wanted to turn knobs and hear changes. Moving those knobs was considered part of playing the instrument. They wanted evolving, interesting sounds that weren't static and which gave their productions a sense of dynamics and flow (especially with electronic music). They wanted to automate those changes in their DAW.

Now almost no one multisamples other synths, and the newer keyboard workstations have deprecated powerful multisampling for simpler clip-based one shot stuff. (People obviously still buy massive sample/sound libraries as plugins for the things that can't be easily synthesized from simpler waveforms, like acoustic drums, orchestral libraries, special effects, etc.)

Captures are awesome in that you have access to any amp or drive pedal ever made, provided you're wiling to slog through a list to find one you like. But captures suck in that they're not truly dynamic and you can't really manipulate them like the real thing, just like a sample or multisample of a Minimoog vs. a real Minimoog or even modeled Minimoog VST.

Is capture tech just a trend? No, it's likely here to stay in various forms. But those calling it the death knell for modeling really don't understand the technology nor the market.

Yeah tangential to all of this, we've seen synths and oscillators and filters and all sorts, drastically improve in the land of digital.

20 years ago, a VST Moog ladder filter just didn't sound as good as the real thing. But today? God, excellent filters are all over the place. You can't move for high quality sounds these days, which just wasn't always true.

I do miss the days of sample CD's. Bizarre Guitar and all that.

 

[AlbertA]

Captures are awesome in that you have access to any amp or drive pedal ever made, provided you're wiling to slog through a list to find one you like.

I get the gist of your point but isn't this in a way similar to going through a big list of amp models?

But captures suck in that they're not truly dynamic and you can't really manipulate them like the real thing, just like a sample or multisample of a Minimoog vs. a real Minimoog or even modeled Minimoog VST.

Is capture tech just a trend? No, it's likely here to stay in various forms. But those calling it the death knell for modeling really don't understand the technology nor the market.

NAM supports parametric modeling though without needing an exorbitant amount of captures. Sure its too fiddly right now but I think the next big wave of Neural net type of capture tech (heck you are already starting to see plugins taking advantage of this) will start taking advantage of this.

 

[AlbertA]

Huh? I just saw it and posted it…

I interpreted as he's commenting on the guy in the video, not you.

 

[ian_dissonance]

I get the gist of your point but isn't this in a way similar to going through a big list of amp models?

No.

 

[AZG]

I saw this list on the "other site" of what will be available at launch and what will come at some point after launch. Is there anything incorrect or missing from this list? Any timeframes of how long missing items are going to take to release? Looking at the Line 6 Stadium web site makes it sound like everything will be available at launch. I really wish they would be clear on their site what will be available and not available at launch.

Stadium will have at launch:

1. Agoura amp models (around 16 models with about 42 channels)
2. Focus view
3. Hype control
4. Showcase features
5. Preset audition
6. More headroom than regular Helix
7. Includes everything from the 1st generation Helix
8. Excellent touch screen
9. Usability improvements including search, etc.
10. More processing power
11. Improved signal chain options
12. Basic librarian software

Stadium won’t have at launch:

1. Proxy (captures)
2. New effects
3. New synth sounds
4. New and improved looper (only minor changes at launch)
5. Helix Stadium editing software

 

[Chocol8]

No.

Right, it's more like sorting through a list of amp models and then fiddling with all the settings available within the model and the pre or post options as well. In my experience there is little difference in how deep the rabbit holes can be between modeling or captures or how quickly one can navigate and avoid them. In either case, you can slog for hours, but if you do, that's your fault.

 

[Digital Igloo]

I saw this list on the "other site" of what will be available at launch and what will come at some point after launch. Is there anything incorrect or missing from this list? Any timeframes of how long missing items are going to take to release? Looking at the Line 6 Stadium web site makes it sound like everything will be available at launch. I really wish they would be clear on their site what will be available and not available at launch.

Stadium will have at launch:

1. Agoura amp models (around 16 models with about 42 channels)
2. Focus view
3. Hype control
4. Showcase features
5. Preset audition
6. More headroom than regular Helix
7. Includes everything from the 1st generation Helix
8. Excellent touch screen
9. Usability improvements including search, etc.
10. More processing power
11. Improved signal chain options
12. Basic librarian software

Stadium won’t have at launch:

1. Proxy (captures)
2. New effects
3. New synth sounds
4. New and improved looper (only minor changes at launch)
5. Helix Stadium editing software

One of these days I'll make a proper "Will Have at Launch" list including things we didn't have time to discuss at the keynote, but this is very close. 1st set #7 isn't quite accurate because Stadium XL won't have the following things from Helix Floor:

• Older Hybrid cab engine
• Pedal Edit Mode (We're talking about something different)
• Preset Spillover (We're talking about something different)
• Dedicated VDI and L6 LINK jacks (Expand D10 is coming next year)
• CV Out jack (No one used it)

Showcase is impacting Stadium's release schedule the most, due to scope, complexity, and other reasons. But a fairly comprehensive editor could very well be ready by launch. And by launch, I mean 1.1, which will be available on day one. If you follow the concierge that appears when you first power on Stadium, it'll walk you through getting onto Wi-Fi, logging into your Line 6 account via QR code, and updating everything to 1.1, without even needing to see 1.0, which is missing a lot of stuff, even from the first set above. Everyone should consider 1.1 as 1.0.

Why force users to update on day one and not just add 1.1 at the factory? Because that would delay everyone getting their Helix Stadium by months, and by then there'd probably be a 1.2 ready; you'd want to update anyway. Personally, I'd prefer that, but our customers sure wouldn't.

 

[mikah912]

To @AZG's point, it's probably a good idea to add "(Available early next year)" to the one otherwise innocuous bullet mention of Proxy.

But aside from that, the Stadium web site pretty accurately describes what you'd be getting out of the box on launch day.

 

[KingsXJJ]

I wonder how much the Stadium Express Pro will run. Could save some costs by removing any touch screen and having a killer phone app.

Similarly leave it at the bare bones initial 16 amp with legacy HX effects. That would be a neat product for sure and save on development costs and time which might speed the launch.

 

[EOengineer]

One of these days I'll make a proper "Will Have at Launch" list including things we didn't have time to discuss at the keynote, but this is very close. 1st set #7 isn't quite accurate because Stadium XL won't have the following things from Helix Floor:

• Older Hybrid cab engine
• Pedal Edit Mode (We're talking about something different)
• Preset Spillover (We're talking about something different)
• Dedicated VDI and L6 LINK jacks (Expand D10 is coming next year)
• CV Out jack (No one used it)

Showcase is impacting Stadium's release schedule the most, due to scope, complexity, and other reasons. But a fairly comprehensive editor could very well be ready by launch. And by launch, I mean 1.1, which will be available on day one. If you follow the concierge that appears when you first power on Stadium, it'll walk you through getting onto Wi-Fi, logging into your Line 6 account via QR code, and updating everything to 1.1, without even needing to see 1.0, which is missing a lot of stuff, even from the first set above. Everyone should consider 1.1 as 1.0.

Why force users to update on day one and not just add 1.1 at the factory? Because that would delay everyone getting their Helix Stadium by months, and by then there'd probably be a 1.2 ready; you'd want to update anyway. Personally, I'd prefer that, but our customers sure wouldn't.

Thanks to the larger team for all the hard work pushing through the home stretch. Let us know if they need a development keg delivered to keep morale up.

 

[mikah912]

I wonder how much the Stadium Express Pro will run. Could save some costs by removing any touch screen and having a killer phone app.

Similarly leave it at the bare bones initial 16 amp with legacy HX effects. That would be a neat product for sure and save on development costs and time which might speed the launch.

I'm sure something like that is in the cards waaaaaaaay down the line. But that usually only appears after they squeezed a lot of the juice from the more upmarket form factors.

 

[KingsXJJ]

I'm sure something like that is in the cards waaaaaaaay down the line. But that usually only appears after they squeezed a lot of the juice from the more upmarket form factors.

I appreciate all of the “squeezee’s” who will make it possible. Thank you for your service.

 

[Digital Igloo]

I wonder how much the Stadium Express Pro will run. Could save some costs by removing any touch screen and having a killer phone app.

Historically, full-featured headless (UI-less) products have never sold well. ToneX One gets away with it because it's relatively simple. Trying to shoehorn something as deep as Stadium into a headless form factor would likely lose enough sales to offset whatever relatively minor cost savings it'd have. Touchscreens are expensive, but they're not that expensive.

Similarly leave it at the bare bones initial 16 amp with legacy HX effects. That would be a neat product for sure and save on development costs and time which might speed the launch.

Number of models wouldn't impact cost in the slightest.

 

[paisleywookiee]

Number of models wouldn't impact cost in the slightest.

Think of all that space in the chassis, after you scoop out the extra models!

 

[KingsXJJ]

Number of models wouldn't impact cost in the slightest.

How do we do we do it? VOLUME!

 

[Chocol8]

ToneX One gets away with it because it's relatively simple.

Along with the simple feature set, Tonex One also gets away with it because it is tiny and under $200.

If you can deliver Agora and Proxy in a mini pedal for $179, I think a lot of people would accept a PC or iPad editor. I wouldn't expect you to deliver such a thing anytime soon even if you could, but it would sell well.

 

[KingsXJJ]

Think of all that space in the chassis, after you scoop out the extra models!

You misspelled modules!

 

[Chocol8]

You misspelled modules!

Are all the amp models going to be stored on banks of memory modules? That would be...interesting.

 

[ian_dissonance]

Right, it's more like sorting through a list of amp models and then fiddling with all the settings available within the model and the pre or post options as well. In my experience there is little difference in how deep the rabbit holes can be between modeling or captures or how quickly one can navigate and avoid them. In either case, you can slog for hours, but if you do, that's your fault.

I’ve yet to audition a capture device where I found a sound I liked by cycling through captures, and I have yet to audition a capture device where I felt like the could adjust something close into what I wanted without additional compromises. With modeling I can find a gain structure I like, turn some knobs and be done.

 

[Chocol8]

I’ve yet to audition a capture device where I found a sound I liked by cycling through captures, and I have yet to audition a capture device where I felt like the could adjust something close into what I wanted without additional compromises.

Once again, your inability to use the technology does not indicate a flaw in the technology itself. Many many other players have had no trouble finding good sounding captures and dialing them in. I don't know what you are doing wrong but I suspect it is simply a matter of making your mind up in advance and being so biased/vested that you won't allow yourself to get a good tone.