Line 6 Helix Stadium

[[Nathan]]

Cliff only had one note: Helix looks like a fine product, but it'll soon look like a Game Boy.


He may very well be right. Excited to see what Fractal's got cookin'. (I want an Axe FX plugin!)

Imagine someone at modelling company one not getting butthurt at words from modelling company two!

Seeing these lighthearted comments from Eric and Cliff instantly makes me respect them (more than I did already). Others are so fragile that if you dare say anything critical you’ll get banned or gaslit from the lemmings.

I guess you don’t have to feel insecure about your product when it’s a helix or a fractal, that probably helps

(Also, where’s the axefx plugin )

 

[[Nathan]]

Seriously, if the current Fractal lineup has any issues, it is NOT lack of horsepower.

I see this rhetoric a lot but it’s short sighted. Maybe the better way to frame it is “with the current Cygnus modelling there’s plenty of power”.

If there’s a whole new updated engine like the switch from ares to Cygnus then something like that has scope to chew a lot more processing and produce better results. I imagine that would be the driving factor for an axefxIV

 

[Lysander]

I see this rhetoric a lot but it’s short sighted. Maybe the better way to frame it is “with the current Cygnus modelling there’s plenty of power”.

We'll see, but i reckon these devices are already at the tail end of the diminishing returns curve: you can throw 10x the compute power at modelling, but you won't get the generational gains we were used to so far. Fractal, in particular, already sounds pretty stellar IMHO.

There's also the fact that modern mainstream DSPs are already (very) overpowered for pure audio applications.

 

[Mongillo19]

We'll see, but i reckon these devices are already at the tail end of the diminishing returns curve: you can throw 10x the compute power at modelling, but you won't get the generational gains we were used to so far. Fractal, in particular, already sounds pretty stellar IMHO.

There's also the fact that modern mainstream DSPs are already massively overpowered for pure audio applications.

Yeah I will say though Eric mentioned how with more DSP you can capture more of the nuances of an amp.

I agree there is probably diminishing returns, but imo there is quite the difference between OG Helix amps and the more recent ones which I think were attributed to more efficient use of DSP or being able to model more of the minute parts of the circuit.

UI is such low hanging fruit for fractal but I could see them not taking full advantage of it. But I'd be all about seeing how they think they can push the modeling algorithms

 

[[Nathan]]

We'll see, but i reckon these devices are already at the tail end of the diminishing returns curve: you can throw 10x the compute power at modelling, but you won't get the generational gains we were used to so far. Fractal, in particular, already sounds pretty stellar IMHO.

There's also the fact that modern mainstream DSPs are already (very) overpowered for pure audio applications.

Fair points but even Cliff mentioned gameboy in the context of computational power.

I dunno we saw the same rhetoric from axe2 to axe3. I had an axe2 since launch and was in the fence about the 3. When I finally got an fm3 and played it I was like… this is not a small change this is huge.

If anyone can make gains like that happen again I believe it’s fractal, dudes undeniable.

 

[molul]

We'll see, but i reckon these devices are already at the tail end of the diminishing returns curve. Sure, you can throw 10x the compute power at modelling, but you won't get the generational gains we were used to so far.

That's similar to consoles. The leap from PlayStation 1 to 2 and 2 to 3 were quite big. 3 to 4, still very noticeably but not as impressive. 4 to 5, even less.

When power doesn't make a huge difference, you have to bring innovation to the table.

 

[BenIfin]

The Gameboy comparison was about processing power.

It was a total misrepresentation of reality and truth simply to F.U.D the interest in the Stadium. Let's not try and pretend it was anything else. And all for something that is almost certainly X years away.

It was a classic passive/aggressive post that Cliff hasn't resorted to for a long time.

It was and is not a good look.

 

[[Nathan]]

It was a total misrepresentation of reality and truth simply to F.U.D the interest in the Stadium. Let's not try and pretend it was anything else. And all for something that is almost certainly X years away.

It was a classic passive/aggressive post that Cliff hasn't resorted to for a long time.

It was and is not a good look.

You’re skirting around that banning again aren’t you, at least you can be awarded champ champ status if it happens

I mostly agree with your take but I have to take a glass half full outlook on it. Lighthearted words met with a lighthearted response from Eric.

If both companies deliver on what they’re saying then we all win really

 

[Lysander]

I agree there is probably diminishing returns, but imo there is quite the difference between OG Helix amps and the more recent ones which I think were attributed to more efficient use of DSP or being able to model more of the minute parts of the circuit.

IIRC both @Digital Igloo and Ben Adrian mentioned there were engine improvements happening, but this is mostly them getting better at the process of modeling amps over time. HX, in particular, requires a lot of manual work, so experience matters.

 

[Mongillo19]

You’re skirting around that banning again aren’t you, at least you can be awarded champ champ status if it happens

I mostly agree with your take but I have to take a glass half full outlook on it. Lighthearted words met with a lighthearted response from Eric.

If both companies deliver on what they’re saying then we all win really

Yeah the big bummer was Matt coming in saying cool your jets, it is still a ways off

 

[Chocol8]

It was a total misrepresentation of reality and truth simply to F.U.D the interest in the Stadium. Let's not try and pretend it was anything else. And all for something that is almost certainly X years away.

It was a classic passive/aggressive post that Cliff hasn't resorted to for a long time.

It was and is not a good look.

I think you are reading way more malice into it than intended.

 

[[Nathan]]

Yeah the big bummer was Matt coming in saying cool your jets, it is still a ways off

Everytime the topic of an axe4 comes up the existing fractal userbase seems to largely be against it for some reason (obviously the thought of needing to upgrade is going to cost them money).

I guess they’ll be happy if the axe4 takes as long as possible. In the meantime we get helix stadium to play with while that gets developed and then we get the axe4 when that drops, all good outcomes really (except for kemper mk2 )

 

[Mongillo19]

Everytime the topic of an axe4 comes up the existing fractal userbase seems to largely be against it for some reason (obviously the thought of needing to upgrade is going to cost them money).

I guess they’ll be happy if the axe4 takes as long as possible. In the meantime we get helix stadium to play with while that gets developed and then we get the axe4 when that drops, all good outcomes really (except for kemper mk2 )

Honestly, yeah the IV can wait as far as I'm concerned I need some space between releases

 

[GTR37]

Yeah the big bummer was Matt coming in saying cool your jets, it is still a ways off

Sadly , he had to people were emailing waitlist@fractal

 

[Lysander]

Sadly , he had to people were emailing waitlist@fractal

 

[GTR37]

IIRC both @Digital Igloo and Ben Adrian mentioned there were engine improvements happening, but this is mostly them getting better at the process of modeling amps over time. HX, in particular, requires a lot of manual work, so experience matters.

It will interesting to see how different Agoura is
DI made a comment in one of the videos that made me think
He said when he heard Agoura it didn’t sound like a Line6 product which is quite and intriguing statement

 

[Mongillo19]

It will interesting to see how different Agoura is
DI made a comment in one of the videos that made me think
He said when he heard Agoura it didn’t sound like a Line6 product which is quite and intriguing statement

Yeah their have been a few interesting comments from Eric regarding the modeling (disclaimer, he himself has said he isn't the modeling guru)

But another one was him thinking a real JCM800 was blasting down the hall and when he went to look it was the first version of the 2203 Agoura model.

It could all be just fluff but I'll be interested to hear samples. I hope they release some before launch

 

[Lysander]

It will interesting to see how different Agoura is
DI made a comment in one of the videos that made me think
He said when he heard Agoura it didn’t sound like a Line6 product which is quite and intriguing statement

What really excites me about Agoura is that being component-based, we should see much faster turnaround times for new amp models. DI commented on this on a couple interviews recently.

 

[spawnofthesith]

I just view Cliff as a DSP programming geek, and I don't worry too much about whether he blusters a little. Fractal is a tiny fish in this pond. You don't typically find a guy who can do the work of an entire company's DSP programming team and have him happen to be great at the nuances of PR.

My biggest turn off to Fractal going back to the early days was how Cliff conducted himself online

Forgiven and forgotten at this point but to date the saltiness and aggression is still a wee bit of an ick.

To be fair , in the early days he certainly had the right to present a “fuck off dumbass” attitude with all the robotic pushback to modeling when he revolutionized the tech.

But yeah, cmon dude ease up on the shade in 2025

 

[spawnofthesith]

Also ib4 east coast tells it like it is blah blah blah


He’s a genius but yo no, he’s definitely a duck bag sometimes, regardless of how awesome he is