Line 6 Helix Stadium

And I'll add to that:

NAM, being great, is far from the potential of capturing theft WILL reach.

It lacks efficiency (CPU optimization will be accomplished, sooner or later). It lacks dynamic capturing. It lacks onboard capturing (into whatever unit it could be run)... And, just as any other digital audio tech, it can be improved in terms of aliasing, accuracy and whatnot.

So any tries on dynamic capturing (liquid profiles, hybrid sims, etc) is a research path. Any unit having onboard, easy, hassle free, not-fuessing capturing is desirable too. It will converge with stimulation, to end up being one hybrid tech.

All of that WILL be done. And my guess is that it'll be done by brands investing resources. Not by NAM.

NAM, as is, if great. But a lot of evolution must be done.
Just as I thought. Then I'm pretty sure Line6 did the right thing not supporting it yet.

I might see them adding support in a few years if it reaches the level of acceptance IRs have. In the meantime, having a new better emulation technology and a brand new proprietary capture one, you can't ask for anything else.

Jeez, winter is still so far away, and I doubt it will be Christmas, more like late January to late February :_(

I wish both units were available at the same time.

At least I hope they bring some monthly pills about the features that weren't announced to help us reach 80k posts before launch.
 
....If they offer it on Stadium (I'm not keen on the name tbh!

That is dead set the exact instant thought I had when I read the blurbs on line ...... on paper and its design and form factor and size etc... I simply cannot fault this unit - lets wait to hear how it sounds and feels - but the name "Stadium" ... is just such a corporate-board-meeting-consensus-name ..... its just a really shit name ... like maybe it was called "Project Stadium" internally, and then someone forgot to name it before it was released, and now its too late.

As corny as it sounds, even the oft suggested "Helix DNA" would have been better - and that's pretty shitty too !!!
 
Not even close. In fact, by userbase, NAM is likely still in the minority when compared with the Kempers, QCs and ToneXs of the world.
I want to say this about NAM, though: I do like it, genuinely. I've used it on a computer. Worked beautifully and sounded great. I just don't want it in my modeler. I'll explain.

I'm a 50something career tech guy typing this on a Kubuntu Linux box. I came up when you'd pull free open source code via anonymous ftp and compile it for the commercial Unix on your university-provided engineering workstation. You don't have to work hard to get me on board with a free, open source project. And I think that NAM does capturing particularly well. Besides, there's something very punk rock about people outside of the gear companies rolling their own solution. Cool.

But I strongly prefer using modeling. So strongly that I can say that if modeling wasn't an option any more, I'd go back to amps only. I don't want to have folders of captures the size of some people's folders of IRs. I don't want to browse endless streams of free captures, and I sure as hell don't want to spend hundreds on commercial captures after I already bought the hardware. I rarely do much with third party IRs, instead using the cabinets provided by Fractal, BOSS, and Fender. When I do use them (like with my ACS-1, IR-2, and IR-200), I tend to settle on third party IRs quickly, accepting likely subptimal results, just to be done with it. Constant purchases/downloads/comparisons and file management are not part of how I do music.

As a guitar player, I like amp controls - TMB, presence, gain, bright switches, etc. Before someone pejoratively dismisses that as "endless tweaking," that's not what I mean at all. I mean dialing in an amp differently for one guitar versus another, like lots of players would when swapping from a Strat to a Gretsch to something with dual PAFs. I firmly believe that an amp's tone stack and gain/volume knobs matter, and I know that access to them in real time matters to me.

If I had a big room full of amps that I wanted to use anywhere, in a studio or live, capture would probably appeal to me. I could dial in to my own taste, then take it all with me. The results would clearly sound spectacular. But I don't have all those amps to capture. I used a Tonex for years, and I simply didn't like the capture use experience. They don't 'dial in' right to me. A few players I deeply respect are so into captures that they won't use modeling any more, so I am not saying anything bad about captures. I just don't like using them. Those capture-loving players I know don't mind me saying I don't want capture in a TMP or whatever, because they wouldn't buy one anyway.

Every single feature added to a product shapes the product in various ways - from interface on down to hardware resources. There's no "just" add a capability. Moreover, resources used adding and maintaining any feature are, by nature of us humans being finite, not available for something else. I love Cliff maniacally improving and enriching the FM9. I don't want him distracted. That case is obviously the easiest to make, given the small size of Fractal, but the premise applies across the board. Fender has a ton of catching up to do without venturing into captures. Line 6 has a big but finite team. They've decided to put some resources into trying captures, which by defniition takes them away from something else. Not what I'd prefer, but there it is.

I'm all for purpose-built capture/profile devices using NAM. It makes sense to me. So it's no vendetta against captures or profiles or NAM or any person, project, or company. I do, however, push back hard against the notion that every modeler just has to eventually add NAM capability as some sort of baseline expectation.
 
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But I strongly prefer using modeling. So strongly that I can say that if modeling wasn't an option any more, I'd go back to amps only. I don't want to have folders of captures the size of some people's folders of IRs.

+100.

I understand why people are excited about it, but Proxy was by far the least interesting part of the HXS announcement for me.
 
Well, I'm in. It's been at least 5 years since I made a unjustifiably large gear purchase, That's long enough.

I'm in the group that would have loved to see the scribble strips in the non-XL.

I didn't see it discussed but I'm assuming guts-wise the non-XL and XL are essentially identical except what's required to handle some of the extra I/O. In other words, same DSP capacity, memory, internal signal routing options, etc.--much like the LT's relationship to the Floor. Anyone know if that's the case?

I think the hype parameter has the potential to be really fun, and between it and the touch zone coarse dialing in feature (forget if it has a special name) there's potential for two very nice improvements for my use case, which is usually just wanting to get an inspiring sound to suit my mood at the moment in an efficient manner.

Not sure if the Proxy feature will be a big one for me. There seemed to be some hints that it can potentially do things beyond basic hardware capture. I'll wait and see how it evolves, whether it gets implemented.

The Showcase feature looks cool, but I'll never use it in all it's glory. But being able to drop in audio and sync control functions for various purposes seems like a fun way to spice up practice. Is there somewhere out there stems are available for different artist's songs?

Silly as it seems, inclusion of a metronome (if I understood correctly) is one I'll make a lot of use of.

Overall, this seems to be a good step towards an all-in-one box. The older I get the less patience I have for having to wire in and integrate a bunch of different devices for day-to-day things, and with a device like this, it means the breadth of what can be day-to-day things has increased.

Happens that I spend 4 months of the year semi-off grid at a small cabin in the woods. The amount I could do with one box seems to change the calculus of what I bring for a guitar rig. It's really not worth bringing the LT because of it's size, but depending on what I can do integrating Showcase into my practice/playing for fun routines, finding a spot for an LT- or smaller sized box might be worth it.

I've gotten very comfortable with the workflow of editing Helix on a laptop. Did anyone catch whether L6 plans a computer editor for Stadium? I remember something about wireless editing (phone app?) so I'm thinking/hoping they'll still have a PC-based editor.

I also can't help reflecting on my trusty LT, which I've had for 8-9 years. I was pretty impressed with how much the amp modeling has improved in just the last year or two to my ears. That gives me a lot of hope that this new platform will grow similarly over time. I also wonder if some of the most recent new models weren't able to leverage a subset of the lessons learned from developing Agoura, which makes me anxious to hear sound demos, to an extent, and more so to give one a spin.

I suppose the big question is whether I will have the patience to wait for the non-XL to come out.
 
Comes to a gear forum and makes fun of people for participating in the gear forum
Hey chuckleberry, there's a whole lot of gear to play & research besides digital guitar modelers, you know like real analog tube amps, not to mention improving music & song writing/creation/performance abilities.

I'd rather not be stuck in the minutia, blow-by-blow of one specific product release, besides I won't be making a decision about *new* direct recording gear for at least 6 months...

But hey, you do you mate :clint

Next Music Trend.jpg
 
Just as I thought. Then I'm pretty sure Line6 did the right thing not supporting it yet.

I might see them adding support in a few years if it reaches the level of acceptance IRs have. In the meantime, having a new better emulation technology and a brand new proprietary capture one, you can't ask for anything else.

Jeez, winter is still so far away, and I doubt it will be Christmas, more like late January to late February :_(

I wish both units were available at the same time.

At least I hope they bring some monthly pills about the features that weren't announced to help us reach 80k posts before launch.
There will be a lot of info and clips over the next few months they said
This is going to be an ongoing project for years to come
He also says we are only showing what we are comfortable showing about the features right now and there is a lot of other Big stuff for stadium they can’t talk about
Likely the App , wireless editing , etc
 
I think it would be so easy to integrate an external cheap NAM/ToneX pedal into one of these that I don’t see it as essential - if it’s that critically important, someone can figure it out.

BUT I do think that the device has everything it needs to bring something worthwhile to the table. Proper spec capturing I/O, a guided walk through process to make them, automatic cloud management, and likely metadata/search and organisation tools beyond what any other platform offers. So I don’t think it takes away from the rest of what HXS’s platform offers - it just has an opportunity to do some other things much better than the competition.

The presentation alluded to not just being amp models - for instance being able to make IR’s or capture signal chains could have many practical uses if it can do it quickly without needing extra gear. Even if it’s not someone’s preferred solution, having it all in one device and ready to go is so useful. I think seeing it as a replacement for traditional amp modelling is missing the point on what it can offer. I think it’s a supplement that can cater to a range of needs, rather than just as an alternative for amp models.
 
There's no longer as big a "I use Fractal because it's simply better than the competition for amps and fx modeling" incentive. Cheap capture boxes are nipping at the heels for amps, cheap multifx are at "these fx are pretty solid!" level for effects now, and I expect Helix Stadium will raise its delay/reverb/pitch/mod effects quality to Fractal level. Amps will probably take a bit longer since Fractal has over 100 unique amps (if we consider all the channels and mode models as one amp).

Fractal's big issue for all its products to date has been usability, so that's the #1 issue they need to solve for a next gen. They need at minimum an onboard user interface as good as Axe-Edit.

While Line6 has gone above and beyond with their "virtual roadies" in the Showcase system etc, I still think Fractal needs to go back to the drawing board after this announcement.

Line6 have put a lot of work into reducing the barrier to entry to modelers:
  • Sound clips for presets so you can understand what it is meant for. This has been a big issue with lots of user and factory presets, having a reference will help a lot. I can see people saying "Hey, I made this preset based on what you are looking for, check my clip and see what you think!" on forums and FB groups because it seems like it's just very easy to do.
  • Ability to easily add a sound clip to help you dial in the sound. Looper blocks can do this now but it seems Line6 has made this really straightforward where it goes from "pull up the looper controls" to "just hit record".
  • Fingerpaint quick tone adjustments, that can even be user defined no less! This is probably my favorite new feature.
  • Integrated parameter manual on-unit.
  • Hype knob to take you from "accurate" to "sounds nicer to my ear". This can be a quick route to "behaves how I think it should sound".
  • Due to the increased number of footswitches even on the smaller non-XL model, access to all your favorite blocks is just a finger tap away.
Ok, so Fractal might focus their product for the professionals only. The only things they truly need from that list are quick access to blocks (hardware design), and the integrated manual, which has been requested at least for Axe-Edit years ago. But people will appreciate things that make it easier to play with sounds whether you are a seasoned pro or a newcomer.

I expect Fractal's wishlists for their next gen product will have a number of "hey Helix Stadium has this cool feature, can you do something like that?" requests.

I just have a hard time finding the unique selling point that would make me say "You know what, I'll go for the Axe-Fx IV instead of the Helix Stadium". I hope Fractal surprises us.

OK ... Im in a ranty mood

I have an almost limitless amount of time and respect for Fractal and Cliff - what they have done and do for modeling is hard to quantify.

And I love my FM3.

-But- I posted a few pages back that with this release, the biggest mistake Fractal could make - in my mind - is to keep relying on the whole "our modeling is the best because [insert words of your choice] .... ie: we are Fractal ...... Cliff is doing it ......we expose 3,000 parameters .... we issue a new FW every 4 days .... we've had a breakthrough in how we think component X should respond to harmonic frequencies .... our forum members have eargasms when even the smallest thing is tweaked etc ...etc....

You can only rely on an objectively un-provable proposition for so long .... pre Helix / Kemper / QC it wasn't an issue .... but that's a long time ago now

In 2025, with these units, its like debating which shade of blue is best or most accurately blue

Like it or not, you can get Pro level tones and feel out of a $400 Ampero ... like it or not, that matters to buyers - pro or not - and lets face it .. not even the "pros" are making serious coin these days

I.m.h.o .... they need to keep doing everything they have been doing modeling wise, but also for f*cks sake, hire or poach some Industrial or UI designers / experts and redesign the whole user interaction experience from the ground up ...... this shit matters.

Look at the FM3 and FM9 - both brilliant units ... period.

Now look at this new Stadium - I'll be surprised if its not equally brilliant sounding too - we'll find out.

Whereas the Stadium - and the Helix - look like a *lot* of time went into its overall design and look etc... ..... the "FM" series, by comparison, from Day 1, look like they were designed by the old Soviet Block Polit Bureau .... and again ... rightly or wrongly, this shit does matter.

But the Stadium is for another day for Fractal .... the finalization of the US/China I'm being a dipshit and starting a political thread deal today has locked in the overall I'm being a dipshit and starting a political thread at %55.

That's going to jack their prices across the whole line by major, major $$$. They are too small to absorb it. So they have to hope sales wont drop at the higher prices, otherwise they go backwards in terms of profitability relative to pre-I'm being a dipshit and starting a political thread.s rates ... or even worse, they are in the invidious position of hoping to sell more units at higher prices !!!! - I'd suggest, not going to happen.

I have no answers - I'm a true "lapsed Economist" ..... so I'm not really sure what my point is, but given there isn't much more known about the Stadium as of yet, my old Economist mind started to focus on these issues.

B.t.w .... just check the Fractal Thread about the Stadium - yes, I know its a Fractal Forum but even allowing for that - whislt there are some sensible, accurate, balanced and factual comments, there are many embarrassing, idiotic, reality-deprived and cringeworthy posts ..... f.f.s .... its like reading a Kemper Forum !!!!
 
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I want more devices that make it easier and more fun to play guitar, not necessarily devices that you can make sound the best.

Bingo. We have a winner. The only reason I started playing guitar was because it made me happy and was fun. I'd posit that is the reason pretty much everyone here started playing.

For me, the happiest, most fun and best tones I ever got was for about 5 years from the age of 19 - 24 when I used a Fender Dual Showman Head into a 4 x 10 Box and 4 or 5 meat and potatoes Boss pedals ... live gigs and recording ... f*cking glorious ..... go figure.

If playing guitar isn't making you happy and is fun for you .... the Axe FX 8 or the Helix Stadium Ultra Plus Extreme Edition aint going to do shit for you.

Maybe Thursdays are my ranty day ? ;)
 
B.t.w .... just check the Fractal Thread about the Stadium - yes, I know its a Fractal Forum but even allowing for that - whislt there are some sensible, accurate, balanced and factual comments, there are many embarrassing, idiotic, reality-deprived and cringeworthy posts ..... f.f.s .... its like reading a Kemper Forum !!!!
I use fractal products and think they are great but man…a lot of the people on forums…they’re something.

Trying to suggest anything is wrong with the product or feature improvements gets met with 50 backlash posts all the same dribble.

“Who cares, this is for pros”
“nothing matters except the sound”
“X brand is just a toy”
“Too many people are used to the UI, it can’t be changed now”

They’re so closed minded they can wrap their head around the fact that usability and sound quality can coexist and aren’t mutually exclusive.
 
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